Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
04-13-2010, 12:52 PM
Quote:
Honestly, it doesn't matter if you're Fed or Klink, in a game where ship combat is supposed to be modeled after "tall ship combat" we're vaporizing hull and shields on an enemy ship in 6 - 7 seconds.
As an observation, I agree 100% that combat is too fast right now. However, there's a pretty strong undercurrent of "well, in the TV shows it doesn't work this way" when that's almost categorically untrue. Ship v ship encounters in Star Trek TV are almost invariably over in seconds. I could come up with dozens of examples where ships are destroyed in literally one or two shots.

Off the top of my head:

- DS9 vs Klingon Fleet
- Enterprise-D against Duras Sisters BoP in Generations.
- Defiant vs Cardassian ships in DS9 episode Defiant
- Federation vs Dominion in DS9 episode Sacrifice of Angels

Canon Star Trek is not a mythical world where spaceships shoot each other for minutes at a time, largely because canon Star Trek is limited by special effects budgets. In fact, I would argue that very few ship engagements in canon Star Trek lasted longer than a minute, ever.

Again, I totally agree that space combat needs to slow down a bit. I'm just pointing out that canon is not your ally in this discussion.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
04-13-2010, 01:12 PM
I'm saying this as an exclusive escort player. I don't think PvP needs to slow down - what needs to slow down is the rate that escorts kill cruisers. I think the rate which I currently kill other escorts is appropriate for canon but a cruiser? They're going to fix shield power though and I think that will slow things down a bit.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
04-13-2010, 02:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by booker9172 View Post
I play as a Fed and a Klingon, and PvP needs a major overhaul. A klingon hits a fed with a stun gun and the fed freezes for a good 10-20 seconds. A fed hits a klingon with a stun gun and the klingon freezes for maybe 4 seconds. That's it. 4 seconds.
klingon players are a lot more likely to build characters with ground PvP in mind, meaning they are a lot more likely to take the racial abilities which reduce holds than Federation players. On the Fed side it's not unusual for players to completely ignore both ground traits and skills. Both sides have access to the exact same things though, and when you do a lot of ground PvP you can kind of see who spent points where.


Quote:
I've been hit with one personal weapon shot that goes right through my personal shields and my body armor and kills my fed engineer. One shot does over 1700 points of damage. It's the magic button again. The one shot kill that is in every MMORPG. I thought by now that someone would have the guts to get rid of it but I guess that I was wrong.
Are you talking about expose/exploit combos? Those are at least 2 shots no matter what happens. When you get hit once you should be breaking line of sight.

Sniper rifles do a ton of damage in 1 hit. They have a long cooldown and are slow to fire to balance it.

Tactical officers have a lot of skills which boost weapon damage. Many fed players don't take them, but they are there, and they boost ground DPS significantly.

My tactical officer tends to hit Engineers harder than other classes because engineers like Weapon Malfunction, and the power cells I use to cleanse that increase damage significantly.

I'm gonna call BS on the 1-shot though. The closest you can get to a 1-shot even with flank crits is: exploit attack, weapon swap, normal attack, exploit attack. Even with expose/exploit combos that's still 2 attacks and if the target had any type of damage resistance buffs you'll need a third to finish.

Where most people screw up is that they try to play STO like it was WoW, and rely on their abilities and healing to resist damage. The way ground PvP in STO works, when you take a hit you need to move out of line of sight. You don't fire back, you don't stand there and try to heal your shields, you roll behind cover immediately. Everybody can take 1 hit, but when you take 2-3 it gets risky.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
04-13-2010, 11:54 PM
1 hit shots are very possible in ground pvp, if you stack racial crit chance + crit-severity stats + damage output, throw on a crit chance/severity armor, aim and fire a sniper rifle overcharged shot with a flank (sometimes with tac buffs + skills) and whala dead in one crit-flank shot. It's been done to me and I've done it to others.

Though once you start getting energy damage resistance armor/shields and keep your defensive skills up and that rarely happens. It also happens less in higher rank ground PvP as the growth for resist, hp, and shields is greater than damage growth.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
04-14-2010, 01:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wildfyre010 View Post
As an observation, I agree 100% that combat is too fast right now. However, there's a pretty strong undercurrent of "well, in the TV shows it doesn't work this way" when that's almost categorically untrue. Ship v ship encounters in Star Trek TV are almost invariably over in seconds. I could come up with dozens of examples where ships are destroyed in literally one or two shots.

Off the top of my head:

- DS9 vs Klingon Fleet
- Enterprise-D against Duras Sisters BoP in Generations.
- Defiant vs Cardassian ships in DS9 episode Defiant
- Federation vs Dominion in DS9 episode Sacrifice of Angels

Canon Star Trek is not a mythical world where spaceships shoot each other for minutes at a time, largely because canon Star Trek is limited by special effects budgets. In fact, I would argue that very few ship engagements in canon Star Trek lasted longer than a minute, ever.

Again, I totally agree that space combat needs to slow down a bit. I'm just pointing out that canon is not your ally in this discussion.
TOS (including the original crew movies) features space combat that usually takes time. There is an episode where the Enterprise is attacked by multiple Romulan ships for long enough to resolve a leadership crisis aboard. There is an episode where the Enterprise dukes it out with a single Romulan Bird of Prey, both Captains using elaborate tactics to win over their foe. The combat against Khan and the combat against the Klingon BoP in Undiscovered Country take quite some time.
In Nemesis, the fight against the Scimitar takes so long that the Enterprise is out of its torpedo reserves and even the phaser banks are empty. In First Contact, the battle against the Borg near Earth takes long enough for the Enterprise to fly from the Romulan Neutral Zone to Earth. And several ships are still fighting at that time. In Deep Space Nine, the episode where Worf is charged with war crimes by the Klingons, the Klingons ship followed and harassed the civilian ships and Worf for what seems like hours.

In the end, combats take as long as is approriate for the drama of the show. If the writers haven't written about a 4 hour long space battle, it won't be seen on screen. If they want to fill an entire episode with battle tactics and showing the combattants plans and strategies, that's how long the combat will take.

Thematically, "long" combats make the most sense. These are ships filled with hundreds of crewmen. Captain and First Officer are seen discussing combat maneuvers verbally. If combat could be decided in a few seconds, that just would not work, and the dangers and risks of warfare seem far too extreme.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
04-14-2010, 01:27 AM
Just in case the OP is still reading this....Right

The shield thing, you spoke to some but not all of the klings....It's happened to me many times where I lose all my hull without any shields, there has been many threads about this already. I only have one beam array now and wasn't even using it at the time, which stops the FBP answer that you will get most of the time.
VM you will find now any kling worth his salt with have at least one way to get out of it, I have two Sci 1 & att pattern omega 3
I'am getting very bored with this "it's klings that do this blah blah", we all have the same skills and BO skills.
Because Feds lose way more and get pawned alot of the time you will find things happen to you alot more, which makes it seem that klings so called "cheat",only in cap & hold do I get VM spammed because of the number of feds in there and it's where 95% of the time I lose my hull before shields.
ie you notice stuff alot more when your getting your arse kicked instead of not being attacked all the time.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
04-14-2010, 01:29 AM
P.s yes fights could do with lasting a bit longer.....but please stop with the "in star trek" this happens etc
this is a bloody game if fights lasted an hour or more you wouldn't get anything done.
This game is "based" on Star Trek not copying it to the letter
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