Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 461 Presumptions on the DF.
04-12-2010, 05:41 AM
Well if the DF didn't result in any loss of points, skills, abilities or unlocked content, and the DF isn't unlocked until the 7th rank which would be Rear Admiral in this thread, not in game, then I really think the negative response to the implementation of the DF would be minimal, definitely not anywhere near the response that the DP got.

Also, I suggested that no player can be demoted below the rank of captain, which doesn't really make sense, but it allows minimal nerd rage and also allows me to think of just 6 bonuses or special features for ranks 6 to 11, rather than attempting to think up suggestions for every rank.

So basically, the only negative effects of the DF would be...

Once you have reached the rank of Rear Admiral, the player would unlock the DF and with that, the chance that the player could be demoted if you broke the Prime Directive, which would mean that they would have to work to get back up to the next rank again, would this mean they earn more skill points?

The other negative effect, which is also a positive effect, would be that the player if demoted would lose the unique bonus or unique special feature that the rank they were allowed, and instead get to use the unique bonus or unique special feature that is associated with the rank that the player has been demoted to.

The other thing I need to work out, is if the player has reached level 100 and has unlocked all content, then the player decides they don't want to be a Fleet Admiral, but want to be demoted down to use one of the other ranks and the unique bonuses or unique special features that are associated with them, then the player wants to stay at that rank. How do we keep the player at the rank they want without them earning more XP and ranking back up?

Perhaps we can suggest the implementation of a rank lock that could be toggled?

I want to type up a detailed post about the DF and link it to the OP, but to be honest I haven't really figured it all out yet.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
I would have to agree in waiting on posting these ideas into your official suggestion, it's a bit unrefined at the moment. You're talking about putting in a very realistic feature to an actual military structure where one would be demoted for breaking some code of conduct. I'd suggest trying to find ways to simplify this, as it seems the idea is taking off in complexity at a crazy rate of speed. First we had your demotion idea, now its coupled with actually being demoted for an action that would probably have to be tied into content.

If it weren't for the COD Prestige system standing as an example of a demotion system working I would honestly be completely against this. After playing some COD I realized a similar feature could work in STO but I imagine it would have to be modified, and more importantly, very simple. I don't know if you've played it but look it up if you haven't, its the only thing that stands close to your idea.

In COD you can choose after reaching the maximum possible rank to start all over again, you lose everything you've worked for in order to gain "Prestige" as they put it. The difficulties arise here on.

1. In COD there is an emphasis on individual skill over other players, so seeing someone who is a high level prestige is a testament to a players ability. In STO this does not exist at nearly the same rate, which would necessitate rewards and unlocks to entice the players to do it.

2. In COD they chose wisely in not calling it demotion. I'd bet you anything the amount of players using the system would have decreased if you had called it demotion, because this is connected with punishment and disapproval.

3. The COD Prestige system is overly simplified. You merely click a button and you're back at square one. If a similar system were applied to STO I could see it being as simplistic as asking the admiral for reassignment to the field, at which point I imagine there would be a mission involved so the admiral could make sure you weren't getting rusty (as if lol).

In addition, it did occur to me to merge a system like this with career progression as there are examples of it in canon. For instance, Dr. Crusher decides she wants to leave active duty and go teach at the end of nemesis, a clear career choice by a starfleet officer. However this is just a hypothetical in my head I'm playing with.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 463
04-14-2010, 07:10 PM
I haven't read this whole thread, but I do agree that the rank system in STO has significant issues.

I play Klingons, so I'm going to talk about them.

The Klingon ranks, as listed by Marc Okrand in Klingon for the Galactic Traveler (KGT), are, from highest to lowest:

'aj (admiral)
Sa' (general)
totlh (commodore)
'ech (bridadier)
HoD (captain)
la' (commander)
Sogh (lieutenant)
lagh (ensign)
ne' (yoeman)

That's nine solid rank names which are used extensivly by Klingon fanclubs and roleplayers. KGT is considered a core part of tlhIngan Hol (Klingon Language) canon and is used as a reference by many Star Trek writers (both screen and print). I highly suggest reading it for anyone who has an interest in Klingon culture.

With a little bit of creativity this list can easily be expended to a possible 27 ranks. Klingon has two suffixes which can be added to modify these words. They are -'a' (major) and -Hom (minor). Here's a couple of examples:

la'Hom (lieutenant commander)
SoghHom (lieutenant jr grade)

With these other ranks it would be easy to do the 100 levels in 10 level rank increments (highest to lowest):

'aj, Sa', totlh, 'ech, HoD, la', la'Hom, Sogh, lagh, ne'

I, personally, believe that getting above HoD should be very difficult and a long process for Klingons. Getting command of a ship is easy, keeping it is hard. Maybe there should be limited spots for those higher ranks and in order to get them a player needs to defeat a player of the higher rank (maybe 10 'aj, 20 Sa', 40 totlh, 80 'ech). So to be an 'ech you have to hold the rank of HoD and defeat an 'ech in 1-on-1 combat. The winner get's the higher rank. You can only challenge those directly above you. It would make the Klingon experience much more Klingon.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 464
04-15-2010, 05:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by qurgh View Post
I haven't read this whole thread, but I do agree that the rank system in STO has significant issues.

I play Klingons, so I'm going to talk about them.

The Klingon ranks, as listed by Marc Okrand in Klingon for the Galactic Traveler (KGT), are, from highest to lowest:

'aj (admiral)
Sa' (general)
totlh (commodore)
'ech (bridadier)
HoD (captain)
la' (commander)
Sogh (lieutenant)
lagh (ensign)
ne' (yoeman)

That's nine solid rank names which are used extensivly by Klingon fanclubs and roleplayers. KGT is considered a core part of tlhIngan Hol (Klingon Language) canon and is used as a reference by many Star Trek writers (both screen and print). I highly suggest reading it for anyone who has an interest in Klingon culture.

With a little bit of creativity this list can easily be expended to a possible 27 ranks. Klingon has two suffixes which can be added to modify these words. They are -'a' (major) and -Hom (minor). Here's a couple of examples:

la'Hom (lieutenant commander)
SoghHom (lieutenant jr grade)

With these other ranks it would be easy to do the 100 levels in 10 level rank increments (highest to lowest):

'aj, Sa', totlh, 'ech, HoD, la', la'Hom, Sogh, lagh, ne'

I, personally, believe that getting above HoD should be very difficult and a long process for Klingons. Getting command of a ship is easy, keeping it is hard. Maybe there should be limited spots for those higher ranks and in order to get them a player needs to defeat a player of the higher rank (maybe 10 'aj, 20 Sa', 40 totlh, 80 'ech). So to be an 'ech you have to hold the rank of HoD and defeat an 'ech in 1-on-1 combat. The winner get's the higher rank. You can only challenge those directly above you. It would make the Klingon experience much more Klingon.
I love this post. I didn't know about "Klingon for the Galactic Traveler." Thank you.

They should definately have to defeat another in at least non-lethal combat to move up in rank.

Once the Klingons have some content, I will be there.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
Hi, I'm thinking about starting a new thread in the Klingon section and asking Klingon players to vote on whether or not they want there rank structure in Klingon or in English.

With qurghs help, I can now easily set up an accurate Klingon rank structure for the Klingons with 11 ranks.

I personally would love to have the Klingon Rank Structure in the Klingon Language, what do you think, should I set it up so players can vote on this or not?


Also, if you think the suggestion will never happen, simply don’t reply, because where just being creative and having some fun, but if the Devs eventually listen, then hey, the Klingons will get Klingon ranks in the Klingon Language, how cool would that be?

To counter anyone’s argument who says that players would not know what rank they are, the players can either compare there rank to the Fed side, look it up somewhere like here or the Devs could implement a tool tip that tells the player the rank name in English when their mouse hovers over the rank.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 466 Klingon Rank Titles.
04-15-2010, 08:09 AM
The following player rank titles should follow after the characters name and not come before the characters name, for example, Alecto HoD which translates to Captain Alecto.

Enlisted Officer Titles:
  • mang (Solider - Troops at this level don't have ranks).
  • bu' (Sergeant).
  • Da' (Corporal).


Commissioned Officer Titles:
  • ne' (Yeoman).
  • lagh (Ensign).
  • SoghHom (Lieutenant Junior Grade).
  • Sogh (Lieutenant).
  • la'Hom (Lieutenant Commander).
  • la' (Commander).
  • HoD (Captain).


Flag Officer Titles:
  • 'ech (Brigadier).
  • totlh (Commodore).
  • Sa' (General).
  • 'aj (Admiral).
  • yo' 'aj (Fleet Admiral).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 467 Klingon Rank Structure Update!
04-15-2010, 09:35 AM
Click here to view the Klingon Rank Structure Update, thank you.

I am now going to create a Survey allowing Klingon Players to vote on whether or not they would like the Klingon Rank Structure to be in the Klingon language.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
The poll is now live, please click HERE to view the poll thread, thank you.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 469
04-15-2010, 12:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by qurgh View Post
I haven't read this whole thread, but I do agree that the rank system in STO has significant issues.

I play Klingons, so I'm going to talk about them.

The Klingon ranks, as listed by Marc Okrand in Klingon for the Galactic Traveler (KGT), are, from highest to lowest:

'aj (admiral)
Sa' (general)
totlh (commodore)
'ech (bridadier)
HoD (captain)
la' (commander)
Sogh (lieutenant)
lagh (ensign)
ne' (yoeman)

That's nine solid rank names which are used extensivly by Klingon fanclubs and roleplayers. KGT is considered a core part of tlhIngan Hol (Klingon Language) canon and is used as a reference by many Star Trek writers (both screen and print). I highly suggest reading it for anyone who has an interest in Klingon culture.

With a little bit of creativity this list can easily be expended to a possible 27 ranks. Klingon has two suffixes which can be added to modify these words. They are -'a' (major) and -Hom (minor). Here's a couple of examples:

la'Hom (lieutenant commander)
SoghHom (lieutenant jr grade)

With these other ranks it would be easy to do the 100 levels in 10 level rank increments (highest to lowest):

'aj, Sa', totlh, 'ech, HoD, la', la'Hom, Sogh, lagh, ne'

I, personally, believe that getting above HoD should be very difficult and a long process for Klingons. Getting command of a ship is easy, keeping it is hard. Maybe there should be limited spots for those higher ranks and in order to get them a player needs to defeat a player of the higher rank (maybe 10 'aj, 20 Sa', 40 totlh, 80 'ech). So to be an 'ech you have to hold the rank of HoD and defeat an 'ech in 1-on-1 combat. The winner get's the higher rank. You can only challenge those directly above you. It would make the Klingon experience much more Klingon.
My first thought is that I have no confirmation on the reputability of your source. Anyone can write a book on a topic. Assuming they are all correct we have to remember that not everyone is that hardcore into Star Trek to know the ranks. These might work better as title options rather than actual ranks.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 470 The Source!
04-15-2010, 12:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZonaSamurai
My first thought is that I have no confirmation on the reputability of your source.
Marc Okrand is the man who created the Klingon Langauge, you can't get a better source. LoL
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