Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1 Cloaking change suggestion
04-14-2010, 04:49 PM
Anti-Troll/Flame Blurb
This is a touchy subject, so I'm going to start with an anti-flame/troll blurb.

I truly believe that we Feds do have more noobies playing PVP than Klingons, but I also believe that proportionally there are just as many bad players on the Klingon side. The only difference is that Feds have a lot more players.

I also truly believe that, by and large, most parts of the PVP is balanced... especially since almost all abilities of the Klingons are duplicated on the Fed side and vice versa. The key is that the Feds lack certain things that the Klingons have... for example cloak, universal bridge officer slots, and carriers.

Carriers are being given to the Feds, so there's no point in bringing it up.

The universal bridge officer slots (BY THEMSELVES) are pretty OP. I don't think I've seen a single Klingon disagree with that.

So what is left is cloaking.


Why I think it needs changing...

It is true that there are plenty of abilities that counter cloaking, but the primary problem is that they are all active abilities. Running with full Auxiliary power requires sacrificing about 3-4 seconds of power transfer with good EPS flow regulators and even more time without. Running with Charged Particle Burst actually requires that the Fed player have some idea of that there is a Klingon nearby... given the size of most maps, this is a pretty big stretch.

I think therefore the key is to give Feds some kind of Passive detection ability that also benefits Klingons... something that Feds have shied away from since most just want to take take take...


Passive Detection pitting Auxiliary Power Levels against Each Other

My idea is hardly completely original. I got the basic idea from posts by other Fed and Klingon players. The general idea is to pit Aux power of the cloaker and detector against each other. The moment the cloaker comes within weapon range of the detector... the game automatically checks who's Auxiliary power is higher.


If the Fed wins slightly, they are notified that there is a cloaked ship nearby, but not told where or how many.

If the Fed wins moderately, they are shown where on only the minimap the location of the Klingon.

If the Fed utterly trumps the Klingon's Aux power level, they are show where exactly on the main and minimap.

If the Klingon wins slightly, they get a small reduction on "time to complete cloak" vs. any losers in range.

If the Klingon wins moderately, they get a small bonus to damage on the first attack.

If the Klingon trumps the Fed completely, they get a small amount of time where as they decloak and can hit the Fed, but the Fed still can't see the Klingon.

In the cases where the Fed wins, the result is automatically broadcasted and shared with team members in local chat range (about the same as visual range).

This will especially be useful since future changes to power levels will likely encourage even more people to run with low aux power builds since Engine power will be responsible for turn rates. This will also give non-Science players a reason to have higher than normal Auxiliary power.


Credit

The idea mostly came from various posters, but I'd also like to thank the Dev's of Starfleet Command III for creating an incredibly balanced PVP game where 2 of the 3 races had cloaking.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
04-14-2010, 06:37 PM
I don't believe anything short of an active skill should locate cloaked vessels. The ability to know we are nearby or in the vicinity is sufficient to alert an anti-cloak build to use an active detection skill...which already exist in game.

We should not have the option to uncloak and be still unseen or given a damage buff because we out Aux'ed someone.

Broadcasting the location of a cloaked ship should require only a hard lock...anything less shouldn't be data linked, you'll have to use comms to convey the info.

No need to change cloak...you are essentially proposing a change to detection of anamolous signatures, not to be confused with target locking. That's fine, give Feds improved awareness of cloaked vessel presence, but not locational/pin-point indications of where we are. Save cloak breaking to a limited and actaive process in order to not de-value and marginalize such a key canon feature and identifying charcteristic of the Klingon experience.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
04-14-2010, 10:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cocoa-jin View Post
I don't believe anything short of an active skill should locate cloaked vessels. The ability to know we are nearby or in the vicinity is sufficient to alert an anti-cloak build to use an active detection skill...which already exist in game.

We should not have the option to uncloak and be still unseen or given a damage buff because we out Aux'ed someone.

Broadcasting the location of a cloaked ship should require only a hard lock...anything less shouldn't be data linked, you'll have to use comms to convey the info.

No need to change cloak...you are essentially proposing a change to detection of anamolous signatures, not to be confused with target locking. That's fine, give Feds improved awareness of cloaked vessel presence, but not locational/pin-point indications of where we are. Save cloak breaking to a limited and actaive process in order to not de-value and marginalize such a key canon feature and identifying charcteristic of the Klingon experience.
I agree. In Star Trek they always gotten a warning when a cloaked ship was in range. They even could detect the anomily's basic location. They just couldnt lock onto them. I kind of like the aux idea also being how close the detection would pick up the cloaked ship.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
04-15-2010, 01:16 PM
Quote:
The universal bridge officer slots (BY THEMSELVES) are pretty OP. I don't think I've seen a single Klingon disagree with that.
Indeed, they are very powerful, but you're also squishy as hell, which is less of an advantage than one might think.

Quote:
So what is left is cloaking.
Yes, cloak makes a big difference. Simple fear keeps the dumb Klings from attacking without backup, an option dumb feds don't have. Teaming also makes a big difference, calling targets, following orders, sticking together and so on - if you play kling, you get it or you die. One can safely assume that only the dumbest still don't get it at BG level, since you're forced to level through pvp - which can't be said for starfleet. There the pvp education only starts at RA for most.

And having a higher percentage of weak players doesn't help.

So, the question is, what can you give to the feds which has nothing to do with 'better ships' since the good players on fed side would then be 'too good'. Maybe something along the line of 'spawning where your team is'? Add an animation of someone arriving in the system and suddenly the feds don't get lost on their way back to the fray while klings still have to do so. Maybe give an option to choose not to, if your team is getting spanked you'd rather form up anew.

Something along those lines.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
04-15-2010, 02:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stingray10 View Post
I agree. In Star Trek they always gotten a warning when a cloaked ship was in range. They even could detect the anomily's basic location. They just couldnt lock onto them.
Well not always...it normally took a very observant and skilled BO to recognize the subtle clues that could indicate a cloaked vessel.

Freqeuntly they had no idea a cloaked vessel was around, and when there was sufficient suspescion to warrant a closer look would they get some indication that a cloaked vessel is near by....still without a lock. But this provided the incentive to initiate some active detection and targeting process.

Considering it's war time in game, I can accept an automated means alerting the crew to our presence, there should be some resource and skill committment for it...and as stated, it should never provide a lock or pin-point the ship except at extremely close ranges.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
04-15-2010, 03:08 PM
Interesting ideas, yet I don't see the need for them. Cloaking really is not all that it is purported to be by some.

All it does is allow you to choose when and who to engage. It doesn't do much else.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
04-15-2010, 03:21 PM
Cloak is completely uber to honest... I mostly agree with cocoa-jin, and i think that the VoQuv is crippeled because the lack of it so I'd like to see one on it too.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
04-15-2010, 03:26 PM
cloaking is only op when you combine it with either snb or vm to ensure that the target has no means of defense while you spike; or if you have no healers (or bad ones) that can't catch the initial burst damage.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
04-15-2010, 04:52 PM
Cloaking is fine as it is. It may be a disadvantage for the Feds, but it's not a huge one. As someone who plays Fed's almost exclusively, the only time a cloak causes me any annoyance, is when they run off. It's not even that great for a surprise attack, since you know it's coming.

No, the real reason Klinks win more often then not, is because the OP abilities they make immense use of.

Subnucleonic beam
Viral Matrix
Jam Sensors (not an OP skill as such, but in combination with VM and cloak, it can be pretty deadly.)
Feedback Pulse

You will see all four of these abilities being spammed in almost every FvK. To be honest, I didn't realise that there were that many Klingon scientists.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
04-16-2010, 07:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alendiak
Cloaking is fine as it is. It may be a disadvantage for the Feds, but it's not a huge one. As someone who plays Fed's almost exclusively, the only time a cloak causes me any annoyance, is when they run off. It's not even that great for a surprise attack, since you know it's coming.

No, the real reason Klinks win more often then not, is because the OP abilities they make immense use of.

Subnucleonic beam
Viral Matrix
Jam Sensors (not an OP skill as such, but in combination with VM and cloak, it can be pretty deadly.)
Feedback Pulse

You will see all four of these abilities being spammed in almost every FvK. To be honest, I didn't realise that there were that many Klingon scientists.
We aren't neccesarily scientist of that sort( though one shouldn't question the intellect of many of us), just warriors specialized in an unusual martial style/ weapon category...even water can be a potent weapon if applied right.
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