Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 81
04-27-2010, 11:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PsychicKitty
Actualy in the Wrath of Kahn movie they sort of used non-standard flight to beat Kahn if anyone actualy remembers.......people love to sight cannon this and cannon that but fail at like simple things....
That was simply Kirk manuevering on the Z axis. In terms of being on the same plane as each other, they were still "right side up" - ie. the Enterprise was not inverted in relation to the Reliant.

I believe it is in one of the Star Trek technical manuals books that explains how the galactic plane is used in navigation and to determine "what is up and what is down". This was necessary in how they calculate things like bearing and mark for objects in relation to each other. See here.

I believe the objection people have for greater mobility in STO is a fear that everyone will be flying around "upside down" and it will look silly (and it would). However, that could easily be prevented by an auto-roll to the correct galactic plane.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 82
04-27-2010, 12:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dstahl View Post
To reiterate -

It was a purposful aesthetic decision to keep starships at the same orientation and not allow inverted flight, not because it was a tech limitation but because in Star Trek, starships never face off inverted to one another. It is an artistic distinction that makes space combat in Star Trek look like tall ships combat.

We have discussed options for more pitch or even z axis movement - but it is a firm decision that we will not allow inverted flight for Star Trek Starships (although we reserve the right to change this for specific situations where your ship may be out of control).
What about special maneuvers that rotate the ship temporarily but return to normal orientation after completion?

Could be used as a "visual aid" for certain attack patterns or not-yet-existing skills.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 83
04-27-2010, 12:06 PM
As an alternative to full 3d flight (which I would really enjoy, but alas it is not to be in this game) how about adding some more "special maneuvre" abilities and perhaps improve upon or rework the current Evasive Maneuvres. Have these maneuvres do specific animations, such as a barrel roll that reduces incoming damage but decreases own weapon effectiveness, or an "Escape Velocity" maneuvre that makes you do an automated tight turn high speed looping.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 84
04-27-2010, 12:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shard-Warrior
I believe the objection people have for greater mobility in STO is a fear that everyone will be flying around "upside down" and it will look silly (and it would). However, that could easily be prevented by an auto-roll to the correct galactic plane.

Auto-plane correction is already in the game - when you bank and release control - it auto-corrects. Allowing starships to fly inverted is not going to happen in STO - this has been discussed since before Beta - and we have plenty of reasons why allowing players to purposly fly inverted is not happening.

Does that mean we're not listening? Sure we are - and we hope you are listening too.

We are looking into different ideas such as those I mentioend - maneauvers such as immelmans, rolls, etc that you click and execute (ie you do not fly the immelman - you click a button and it does it) - or even the possibility of allowing you to come to a stop and use thrusters to do a straight up or down Z axis move.

We spent a lot of time on space combat mechanics and we are happy with where they are at - they give space combat the feel we were shooting for.

So in the future - yes - we may allow some sort of pre-set maneuaver - or possibly greater pitch range - so focus ideas in those areas instead of focusing on allowing inverted flight.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 85
04-27-2010, 12:10 PM
Hi dstahl, I understand what your stating regarding why 360 degree control is not in the game, but if the majority of the STO player base would want it, wouldn't you have to implement it?

I don't see why you can't create a poll and link it into the STO launcher, then let the players tell you how popular the idea of having full 360 control over your Starship is. I personally would vote for the full control system and if it is implemented, if I want to my ship on the same angle and level as my opponents, then I can, simply because I have full control.

Take the limit off of the Z axis and assign the Q and E keys to roll the ship, just like in Star Trek Bridge Commander, which is a game that was made in 2002 that still has a number of features that are missing in STO.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 86
04-27-2010, 12:16 PM
The Enemy's Gate is Down.


Oh wait wrong IP... sorry.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 87
04-27-2010, 12:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dstahl View Post
To reiterate -

It was a purposful aesthetic decision to keep starships at the same orientation and not allow inverted flight, not because it was a tech limitation but because in Star Trek, starships never face off inverted to one another. It is an artistic distinction that makes space combat in Star Trek look like tall ships combat.

We have discussed options for more pitch or even z axis movement - but it is a firm decision that we will not allow inverted flight for Star Trek Starships (although we reserve the right to change this for specific situations where your ship may be out of control).
Thanks again dstahl!

As I mentioned, all this has been argued before and you guys explained your reasons before too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shard-Warrior View Post
Yes, you have. You just were not paying attention. What is the Enterprise E doing in that video after Picard orders "Full axis rotation to port"?
WOW, not seen that clip in like days! Not seen it used to try to defend the need for an updated flight model either.

The pic I am about to link got me lots of questions all on the same theme that went something like this; 'Please tell me how you did a 'barrel roll' - I'll pay you!' or 'WOW! Is that from 'Tribble? At last full control!!' ---->

http://i956.photobucket.com/albums/a...22-46-49_2.jpg

I was simply turning at full impulse to line up for the fight.

Not a true barrell roll though. (Banked turning.)

It seems that no explanation of the game mechanics or why things are as they are is good enough for some.

Sure, there are things we all would like to see changed and voicing our opinions here is one way to let the devs know that, but calling the devs lazy (as some seem to have in this thread) will not earn you any 'brownie points'.

Sometimes we forget that part of the whole scheme of player / dev interaction is the fact that some things are left unchanged for very good reason - this case being a prime example. Please read the arguments in this and other threads relating to spacial awareness and remember that you may be fine with full 3D movement / more complex flight model but most others will not to see what I mean.

(Darn - Did I just defend Cryptic? Sorry guys! )
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 88
04-27-2010, 12:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alecto View Post
Hi dstahl, I understand what your stating regarding why 360 degree control is not in the game, but if the majority of the STO player base would want it, wouldn't you have to implement it?
lol, have to, lol, they don't have to do anything. Too funny....
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 89
04-27-2010, 12:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dstahl View Post
So in the future - yes - we may allow some sort of pre-set maneuaver - or possibly greater pitch range - so focus ideas in those areas instead of focusing on allowing inverted flight.
This sounds good enough I'd say, after all we're captains - one of the anoying bits for me (and why I am not resubscribing for now) is I am flying the ship.. not giving orders to my bridge crew. So many of the key "captain orders" are missing from the action gameplay it has never felt like Star Trek proper to me

Anyway I am not a whiner, I just wanted to say that this would probably please most of the people, some of the time, and that along with bringing in more canon based game play stuff would probably bring me back (like "on screen", a real ship that I can walk around and setup and role play whilst at warp traveling to another system as there is nothing else to do at warp as it takes time.... Sector space is such a huge let down)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 90
04-27-2010, 12:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dstahl View Post
Auto-plane correction is already in the game - when you bank and release control - it auto-corrects. Allowing starships to fly inverted is not going to happen in STO - this has been discussed since before Beta - and we have plenty of reasons why allowing players to purposly fly inverted is not happening.

Does that mean we're not listening? Sure we are - and we hope you are listening too.

We are looking into different ideas such as those I mentioend - maneauvers such as immelmans, rolls, etc that you click and execute (ie you do not fly the immelman - you click a button and it does it) - or even the possibility of allowing you to come to a stop and use thrusters to do a straight up or down Z axis move.

We spent a lot of time on space combat mechanics and we are happy with where they are at - they give space combat the feel we were shooting for.

So in the future - yes - we may allow some sort of pre-set maneuaver - or possibly greater pitch range - so focus ideas in those areas instead of focusing on allowing inverted flight.
Wow, I really hope you do this. Had no idea you were even considering improving the flight mechanics.
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