Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
04-27-2010, 02:45 PM
Guess it's pretty easy to misinterpret statements like:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt_Dravis
I did say the following:

I say 'over 51%' (or a simple majority)...
and

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt_Dravis
... the 'typical player' tends to 'heal' an 'average' (or above) amount.
If that's not what you meant then fine. We're discussing the same thing...just from different perspectives. I am saying that the majority of Fed players are substandard healers and do not understand the general strategic concepts I layed out before...mainly appropriate healing build/loadout, preemptive healing, hull resistance stacking, and tactical healing of teammates versus self-preservation. If the majority perform below standard in this category than, by definition, the median or average player cannot excel there simultaneously.

The links you provide in support of your theory (general majority vs your experienced majority vs whatever) actually contradict any of those stereotypes indicating Fed players understand these conceptual strategies for healing and you've provided no analysis or interpretation to demonstrate otherwise. If by "average" healing amount you mean a low amount I'd agree. Anything else I cannot agree with. If you'd like to debate that topic we can start a thread and go through all the myriad healing builds, typical player performances, statistical evidence and so on but we've probably hijacked the OP's thread enough, wouldn't you say (sorry about that Kaku)?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
04-27-2010, 03:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BountyXP View Post
If that's not what you meant then fine. We're discussing the same thing...just from different perspectives. I am saying that the majority of Fed players are substandard healers and do not understand the general strategic concepts I layed out before...mainly appropriate healing build/loadout, preemptive healing, hull resistance stacking, and tactical healing of teammates versus self-preservation. If the majority perform below standard in this category than, by definition, the median or average player cannot excel there simultaneously.

The links you provide in support of your theory (general majority vs your experienced majority vs whatever) actually contradict any of those stereotypes indicating Fed players understand these conceptual strategies for healing and you've provided no analysis or interpretation to demonstrate otherwise. If by "average" healing amount you mean a low amount I'd agree. Anything else I cannot agree with. If you'd like to debate that topic we can start a thread and go through all the myriad healing builds, typical player performances, statistical evidence and so on but we've probably hijacked the OP's thread enough, wouldn't you say (sorry about that Kaku)?
Indeed, what you thought I meant is -not- what I meant. Hence my attempts at clarification, which I must still continue since we are still confused on common terminology.

What I consider 'average Healing' (in terms of the current 'Healing' stat, which is only hull repair; this is not a statistical 'average' of everyone's Healing stats) is the amount of hull repair needed to keep a team alive, based upon the following very simplistic formulation:

(TotalEnemyDamageDealt / NumberOfAllies) / 10 = HealingNeeded


The total damage dealt, divided by the the total number of allies (including yourself), represents the (statistically) average damage dealt by each enemy player. In order for this damage to be dealt, the target (ally) must still be alive; the damage numbers -- very simplistically -- represent the total hull health pool (less than or equal to the total amount needed).

Divide this average damage by 10 to represent what I consider the average hull needed to be 'healed' in order to survive. (If 10% hull seems too low for survival for whatever reason, then divide by a number between 10 and 5, where 5 represents 20% hull needed.)

===

Using this (again, very simplistic) formulation, I have scanned through my Capture-and-Hold (FvF) score report screenshots from March through present. And it seems, to me, that the typical Federation player, in at least 51% of these matches, outputs enough 'Healing' to mitigate death.

By 'typical', I mean someone not new to space combat (of which I occasionally see a few). Again, this ignores shield 'heals'/resists, which can also account for at least some of the cases where I see less than HealingNeeded values.

In other words, my use of 'typical' or 'average' player does not represent a statistical average, and it does not necessarily have a bearing on the statistical majority of players; it is intended to reflect relative 'skill'.

===

In other words, I disagree with any stereotype -- related to 'Healing' stats -- about a majority of Federation players, or about all space PvP. What you consider 'substandard', I consider adequate or 'average'. (I consider 'minimum' to require a formula divisor of at least 20.) Because neither of us can adequately sample a statistical majority, we cannot stereotype about them. But I can provide you statistical analysis of a majority of matches that I personally have played (above).

Lastly, this is not necessarily thread hijacking, because we have elaborated at great length on what 'Healing' means to the game, and what it means to us, and how it should be changed. Altogether a useful discussion, in my opinion, yet still relevant to the original post.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
04-27-2010, 03:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andor View Post
Have you though that if you did help heal the guy thats attacking 3 ships he might not die and might then actually add to your attempts to win.

I say this because too often in pug games I see players not supporting and attacking but rather just defending one flag trying to never die while the enemy just collects the other 4 flags and wins just by keeping the fed ball from moving away from that one flag.

At least the guy thats attacking those 3 ships is trying to bring the fight to the enemy rather then just circling one flag hoping the enemy comes to it.
many times i have helped only to see my cd's wasted cause the guy still get blown up in a few more seconds. but full impulse right into 3 people come on now if you are going to go after 3 people just fly to them w/o impulse then when you get close they will most likely chase you. then you can actually do something instead of having to wait a few seconds for weapons to charge while those 3 people are pounding you to crap.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
04-27-2010, 03:59 PM
Quote:
many times i have helped only to see my cd's wasted cause the guy still get blown up in a few more seconds. but full impulse right into 3 people come on now if you are going to go after 3 people just fly to them w/o impulse then when you get close they will most likely chase you. then you can actually do something instead of having to wait a few seconds for weapons to charge while those 3 people are pounding you to crap.
Well if the guy full impulsed into 3 guys them yea he or she deserves to die.

I find the best way to do well as a escort is to Fly high then drop down on them hopefull from behind or the side so they dont see you right away. I get my speed from setting my engines to 50 and my shields to 25 plus with my engineering skills my shield power is actually 46 and my engine power is 67. I also use the hyper-inpulse engine so I rarely have problems running people down or getting away without ever using full impulse.

Basically What I was talking about are the players that seem to be intimidated by leaving the comfort of the fed ball to take down flags and pick off ships attacking the fed ball from behind or flanking. If a cruiser joins up with a good escort they can drop 3,4 ships in one run especially if the cruiser takes the time to help keep the escort alive.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
04-28-2010, 11:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andor View Post
Well if the guy full impulsed into 3 guys them yea he or she deserves to die.

I find the best way to do well as a escort is to Fly high then drop down on them hopefull from behind or the side so they dont see you right away. I get my speed from setting my engines to 50 and my shields to 25 plus with my engineering skills my shield power is actually 46 and my engine power is 67. I also use the hyper-inpulse engine so I rarely have problems running people down or getting away without ever using full impulse.

Basically What I was talking about are the players that seem to be intimidated by leaving the comfort of the fed ball to take down flags and pick off ships attacking the fed ball from behind or flanking. If a cruiser joins up with a good escort they can drop 3,4 ships in one run especially if the cruiser takes the time to help keep the escort alive.
Pretty much summed up what i do on my star cruiser except I am the guy following you around with extend shields and heals. I love to play a support class its just i see way to many morons doing stupid things like full impulse into 3 people lol.
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