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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 161
05-04-2010, 12:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dstahl View Post
Actually, it does have the bad-ass phaser cannon on the underside of the saucer - it is a unique power that comes with the ship (ie not a weapon slot) and fires a narrow cylindor beam that (I believe) will be capable of hitting multiple targets.
So...how does someone who's already recruited their friends to play this game, paid in a Lifetimer subscription, bought multiple copies of the game to get the uniforms they want, AND already dumped money into C-Store points to get playable races implied to already be in the game at launch aquire this particular ship, with the third nacelle and special phaser cannon...without participating in a questionably-legal Pyramid scheme?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 162
05-04-2010, 12:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrashTestPilot
Why assume that this is an unbalanced design? All that's been said is that it's a working cannon. He didn't say how well it worked. What's more, dstahl also said that it will be available through other means as well, so you'll probably have your chance to get one eventually.
dstahl has specirfically stated that it's a multiple-target front power, so the AGT Enterprise will be able to achieve damage that a standard T5 cruiser can't, by definition. Additional damage is additional damage, after all, and with everything else being equal (as I mentioned in my post), that POTENTIALLY overpowers the ship.

No other T5 Cruiser will have that, at least for a few months, it's a power specific to the ship (like the susbystem targeting is intrinsic to a Science ship), but unlike the Science ship's powers (that are available to BOFFs), the AGT Enterprise's power will be unique to the AGT Enterprise.

See what I mean now? Basically if the power does ANY DAMAGE AT ALL, it has the POTENTIAL to overpower the ship in relation to other cruisers - no amount of "balancing" will combat that.

Now, if having that wpoer cost that cruiser a weapon slot or two - then it could be balanced out. Then you'd have people screaming that the AGT ENterprise was "inferior" to other cruisers because it didn't hacve as many slots, or something
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 163
05-04-2010, 12:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexraptor View Post
But why is he working on the 3rd nacelle version when the base/original version still hasen't been fixed yet...
What is wrong with the current Galaxy? I know the saucer isn't the exact replica of the Enterprise, but what else is wrong with it?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 164
05-04-2010, 12:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShinRa_Actual View Post
So...how does someone who's already recruited their friends to play this game, paid in a Lifetimer subscription, bought multiple copies of the game to get the uniforms they want, AND already dumped money into C-Store points to get playable races implied to already be in the game aquire this particular ship, with the third nacelle and special phaser cannon...without participating in a questionably-legal Pyramid scheme?
Texchnically, it's not a Pyramid scheme, it's a viral-marketing scheme that rewards you when you get five "recruits". There is no money changing hands between your friends and you, or between you and Cryptic - which eliminates it from legally being considered a pyramid scheme.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 165
05-04-2010, 12:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Direphoenix View Post
Not to belittle you're point, b/c I think I actually agree with you on this, but the Automated Defense Turret/Battery/tactical console item is nothing new. ...
Regarding the Steam thing, if I'd just seen it on the site that would have been my first guess too, but my first contact with it was in a thread where someone was complaining about how useless the actual droppable turret in space is. It's a different item than the defense battery in the DDE (which I have). The Radiometric Converter is also different than what D2D had for preorder - it had a shield that regenned health, probably just copying the relevant armor trait.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Direphoenix View Post
But yeah, C-Store items shouldn't have special abilities over things you can earn/get in-game. I don't mind if there are some "neater" looking things in the C-Store to give us more options on the same types of things that we see in-game, but they shouldn't have more functionality than what we can get in-game either.

For example:
  • new costumes/ship cosmetic pieces = good
  • new armor pieces that have a random proc (something not in-game)/or ship designs that have special powers over their tier counterparts = bad
Well, Cryptic kept saying that... though as has been pointed out to me by various apologists, many of the marketing gimmicks with actual game-altering effects have all been 'deals' outside the C-store
Like that actually has any ethical distinction... of course there's the unique species traits of species in the C-store, too.

Ugh. It makes me ill to think about now. I actually argued in favor of the C-store, extensively, when I thought it was going to just consist of the same extraneous stuff that went in the C-store in Champions.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 166
05-04-2010, 12:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Callasan View Post
Now, if having that wpoer cost that cruiser a weapon slot or two - then it could be balanced out. Then you'd have people screaming that the AGT ENterprise was "inferior" to other cruisers because it didn't hacve as many slots, or something
It really doesn't matter what they do, some small percentage of the user base will be unhappy with it. This includes doing nothing.

Some people, if you give them free sex, will complain she's not blonde.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 167
05-04-2010, 12:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dstahl View Post
Actually, it does have the bad-ass phaser cannon on the underside of the saucer - it is a unique power that comes with the ship (ie not a weapon slot) and fires a narrow cylindor beam that (I believe) will be capable of hitting multiple targets.
Oh. Uhm, hm. dstahl, I really hate to say this, but... okay, it might not be a major effect in game, but this is a little bit more than a cosmetic difference. If it's on the level of the Red Matter capacitor and the point-defense plasma gun tac console, okay, that's fairly modest. But more than that? Hrm. That's some mild cause for concern. Is it on the level of a weak beam attack with the same firing arc as the dual cannons? (I suppose sort of like the high-density phaser beam special attack, or the arcwave blast?)

The implication I've gotten so far in this thread is that the T4-to-T5 upgrades mentioned would have some sort of special abilities. I really hope they don't come off as gimmicky; that was one of the things I disliked about ST:Armada and ST:BOTF. Phaser cannon would be okay, I imagine; a Corbomite Device? Yeeek...

Put it in the C-store? Uhm.. I think there's plenty enough in there now and with what's coming down the pipe. (Maybe a new model for the T1 Light Cruiser.) I don't mind the C-store, really, as it lets me pick and choose what cosmetic enhancements I'd like to the game, but.. it's getting a little bit heavy there. (Cryptic should really start now in organizing the interface with category tabs, if they put too much more in there.) For some reason the idea of ships with powers (as opposed to BOffs with powers, which are at best one-sixth of the ground encounter experience) sold in the C-Store... bugs me a bit. I think what bothers me is that it's such an iconic -- if rather funky -- ship.

I know we've had jokes here about wanting a ship to mount the axial wave-motion phaser on ships, but actually doing it is a surprise! Thinking about this, while this is rather cool, it's on a cruiser hull, which has the turn rate of a space shuttle launch crawler. I'm kind of intrigued, and a bit torn about it. I do hope that there is another way to obtain it, since I'm really not likely to be able to recruit five people into STO. Seriously, there's just no way unless I become the Scott Richter of STO (and loose friends in the process!) It wouldn't surprise me if it becomes a vet's reward some time down the line, say about the 2- or 3-year mark, but then again, who knows? If it's not available any other way (which given the use of the word 'special' and not 'exclusive,' implies it'll be available some other way at some point) then.. oh, well.*

Anyway, time to wait and see what comes of this. No pitchforks, just question-marks popping above my head.


* - Like I said, offer me a Starstalker or a Missouri and I'll consider finagling five subscriptions... no, wait... ($50 * 5) + ($15 * 5) = Profane Bleeping Crud. No. No, I dished out for the LTS, I can't afford or justify five subscriptions -- which seems to come out to about the price of an LTS or so -- no matter how cool the item is. Sorry, Cryptic. I guess we're both out of luck.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 168
05-04-2010, 12:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dstahl View Post
The 3rd nacelle variant was done in conjunction with working on fixing up the Galaxy - and if you check out the Galaxy on Tribble - you'll notice it has been updated.

Multi-task!
I just logged on to tribble to take a look see... and a tear came to me eye. The model is there, the skin is not that still needs a but of work, but the model is there. I saw the ship and her name is Galaxy...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 169
05-04-2010, 12:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sivar View Post
What is wrong with the current Galaxy? I know the saucer isn't the exact replica of the Enterprise, but what else is wrong with it?
There's a whole threadnought on errors in the models in-game, from inappropriate time eras to details.

Basically, the complaints with the origina Galaxy model were:

1) No front torpedo launchers accounted for on the model
2) Warp pylons not being flush with the rear of the engineering hull (visible seam on the top)
3) Incorrect nacelle placement
4) Missing phaser strips

Sauer issues - well, it depends on which saucer you mean. The working miniature (depending on which model you're talking about - the 6-foot original model, or the 4-foot shooting miniature) had two different saucer configuration. Subtle differences, yes - such as the height of the saucer rim - but there nonethless.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 170
05-04-2010, 12:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Callasan
dstahl has specirfically stated that it's a multiple-target front power, so the AGT Enterprise will be able to achieve damage that a standard T5 cruiser can't, by definition. Additional damage is additional damage, after all, and with everything else being equal (as I mentioned in my post), that POTENTIALLY overpowers the ship.

No other T5 Cruiser will have that, at least for a few months, it's a power specific to the ship (like the susbystem targeting is intrinsic to a Science ship), but unlike the Science ship's powers (that are available to BOFFs), the AGT Enterprise's power will be unique to the AGT Enterprise.

See what I mean now? Basically if the power does ANY DAMAGE AT ALL, it has the POTENTIAL to overpower the ship in relation to other cruisers - no amount of "balancing" will combat that.
Sigh, I just don't see why they are doing this. This whole "exclusivity" tact that Cryptic seems to love is one thing, but to do it with stuff other than fluff, I dunno, it just doesn't make sense to me.
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