Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
05-07-2010, 12:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZootCadillac
too far? Not at all.

A polished turd is a polished turd and people have a right to be upset about it.
If the people who polished that turd are upset by the critics then they did not polish hard enough.

acceptance brings mediocrity. Defiance brings change.
You missed what I was trying to say. Polished turd or not, there is a line when crossed only serves to harm the community and not those who polished the turd. So to speak. Your statement about mediocrity and defiance is not an absolute.

Please don't confuse what I am saying with a "I am defending the RAF" as that is not at all what I am saying.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
05-07-2010, 12:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtomicFB
You make some good points here. We don't have a clear picture of what is happening in the Studio. So perhaps some consideration is in order.

I would like to add, I don't think you should stop bringing constructive ideas to them or the community.
Normally, I would be inclined to agree. However given the recent responses I've been getting from the community team... I would say that my days are numbered. You would not believe some of the things they are pegging me with. They're credibility is at an all time low for me, and the ability to post freely either critically or constructively feels significantly constrained. Out of respect to their forum guidelines, I will not go into details.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
05-07-2010, 12:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZootCadillac
too far? Not at all.

A polished turd is a polished turd and people have a right to be upset about it.
If the people who polished that turd are upset by the critics then they did not polish hard enough.

acceptance brings mediocrity. Defiance brings change.
Ah, but an absence of acceptance makes for a very oppressive world indeed. If I failed at a part of my job due to reasons totally beyond my control and was then told that I'm clearly a fat, lazy moron who didn't know what he was doing I wouldn't find that much motivation to try and make those people happy. Not to mention I think we're all human here and as such we should do our best to improve things and change with as few bad results as possible. After all world war 2 could have been avoided if Adolph had just been allowed into art school...

EDIT: apparently I can't spell
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
05-07-2010, 12:13 AM
Its a very cynical move.
They were well aware that ship was highly requested by players.
The community should speak its mind.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
05-07-2010, 12:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtomicFB
You missed what I was trying to say. Polished turd or not, there is a line when crossed only serves to harm the community and not those who polished the turd. So to speak. Your statement about mediocrity and defiance is not an absolute.

Please don't confuse what I am saying with a "I am defending the RAF" as that is not at all what I am saying.
oh I like the RAF and its exclusive reward. I think that those who feel that they deserve a way to get everything in game are just indicative of the Pˇkemon generation. There is no rule that says you gotta catch 'em all and you should be happy with what you can achieve.

I was understanding that you were having regret that you suddenly see the devs as human beings and are upset that you may have offended them. Which is why I said it's not too far.
They are part of a team that have taken the gold and promised to deliver. We are the market and what has arrived is short.
We have every right to continue to be dissatisfied whilst we are paying for it. It's not our job to be quiet, it's their job to quiet us. How they do that, by force or by product, is the measure of their stature and capability.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
05-07-2010, 12:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacobFlowers View Post
Normally, I would be inclined to agree. However given the recent responses I've been getting from the community team... I would say that my days are numbered. You would not believe some of the things they are pegging me with. They're credibility is at an all time low for me, and the ability to post freely either critically or constructively feels significantly constrained. Out of respect to their forum guidelines, I will not go into details.
Please, check your inbox.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
05-07-2010, 12:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZootCadillac
oh I like the RAF and its exclusive reward. I think that those who feel that they deserve a way to get everything in game are just indicative of the Pˇkemon generation. There is no rule that says you gotta catch 'em all and you should be happy with what you can achieve.

I was understanding that you were having regret that you suddenly see the devs as human beings and are upset that you may have offended them. Which is why I said it's not too far.
They are part of a team that have taken the gold and promised to deliver. We are the market and what has arrived is short.
We have every right to continue to be dissatisfied whilst we are paying for it. It's not our job to be quiet, it's their job to quiet us. How they do that, by force or by product, is the measure of their stature and capability.
I agree with you to a point. I agree we should not be quiet when there is an issue that effects us. I am not faulting us for being upset. Like Dublin said, they knew many people wanted that ship. Which, I feel is the reason they put it in the referral program. Logically it makes sense. I don't necessarily like it too much but I can see the reasoning.

However, we should consider that there is the possibility that there are those on the other side who don't like the situation either.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
05-07-2010, 12:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtomicFB
I agree with you to a point. I agree we should not be quiet when there is an issue that effects us. I am not faulting us for being upset. Like Dublin said, they knew many people wanted that ship. Which, I feel is the reason they put it in the referral program. Logically it makes sense. I don't necessarily like it too much but I can see the reasoning.

However, we should consider that there is the possibility that there are those on the other side who don't like the situation either.
Ok. I misunderstood. I apologise for sticking my nose in.

I really have no issue with this referral nonsense and a reward that you will not see anyone with unless they are dumb and drunk enough to buy and register 5 new game accounts. ( hang on, i may do this just to spite people )
as I have said before.
little johnny has seen the other kid has cake and little johnny is stamping his feet screaming "I WANT CAKE" too and it's a little pathetic. Little Johnny needs a slap and to be taught a lesson about remuneration for effort.

And I have no idea why you would make a fuss. If anyone other than a few lifers are playing in 12 months and the few staff left can make models they will sell you every ship under the sun that CBS will allow them. Ask for 16 nacelles, a nuclear cannon and fluffy dice because when the revenue dries up they will sell it to you with nude pictures of their mothers.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
05-07-2010, 12:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacobFlowers View Post
They're credibility is at an all time low for me, and the ability to post freely either critically or constructively feels significantly constrained.
I really think it's a matter of perspective. From the things I've read, they let you and some others get away with posting a lot more things than they let irate posters get away with on their Champions forums between November '09 and January '10.

So you look at your posts and actions taken and feel constrained. I can understand that. But I look at your posts and some of the responses those posts have garnered and think, wow, they're really loosening up compared to how they were with the Champs forums.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
05-07-2010, 12:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtomicFB
Just wanted to share these thoughts with you.
I see what you're saying, but I don't see that vibe you're talking about. Don't over-analyze is my advice, heh.

You saw the post dstahl made with the v'ger joke. That he even responded to the one particular flame that came from it was surprising. But read the post. He's still just doing his thing. Addressing the issue and brushing the ranty bits aside.

And read his post about the referral program. Not the post about him taking feedback to the meeting and discussing things with the executives. No, the post about what he thinks about the referral program. All really positive stuff.

Keep in mind that 99.9% of the posts made by people with orange names on these forums are made with intent. They know what they're posting and why they're posting it. It's part of their job. The responsibility of being "official." They know we'll deconstruct every word they type. They know this going in.

Every now and then, a little crack shows the humanity of the person. But you ask me, that's a good thing.

And really, just keep up with the posts and see how much enthusiasm dstahl and others do have when they talk about things like the new ship interiors and what not.

It's not that I think we're all that great in our back and forth with the devs. It's just, I think they're very very very well trained to sift out the noise. The rhetoric. The rants. And get to the meat of the issue that they can talk about.

What always entertains me the most on the forums, by the way ... is when folks get frustrated about the dev "silence."

Half the time the devs CAN'T respond to certain questions. Because they can't answer the question yet without going through their process. And the rest of the time, they can't answer the question because they don't have an adequate answer.

But that silence ... that's always the best tool to get a conspiracy thread going.

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