Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
05-06-2010, 11:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZootCadillac

And I have no idea why you would make a fuss. If anyone other than a few lifers are playing in 12 months and the few staff left can make models they will sell you every ship under the sun that CBS will allow them. Ask for 16 nacelles, a nuclear cannon and fluffy dice because when the revenue dries up they will sell it to you with nude pictures of their mothers.

If you will look at my post history on the RAF most of them just express I didn't like the galaxy being a part. I admit for entirely selfish reasons. I wanted that ship and I didn't want to go through the trouble of getting 5 people signed on.


I do realize that you and I differ on our opinions on where the game might be in 12 months but I don't consider that an impediment to good debate.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
05-06-2010, 11:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by superchum View Post
I see what you're saying, but I don't see that vibe you're talking about. Don't over-analyze is my advice, heh.

You saw the post dstahl made with the v'ger joke. That he even responded to the one particular flame that came from it was surprising. But read the post. He's still just doing his thing. Addressing the issue and brushing the ranty bits aside.

And read his post about the referral program. Not the post about him taking feedback to the meeting and discussing things with the executives. No, the post about what he thinks about the referral program. All really positive stuff.

Keep in mind that 99.9% of the posts made by people with orange names on these forums are made with intent. They know what they're posting and why they're posting it. It's part of their job. The responsibility of being "official." They know we'll deconstruct every word they type. They know this going in.

Every now and then, a little crack shows the humanity of the person. But you ask me, that's a good thing.

And really, just keep up with the posts and see how much enthusiasm dstahl and others do have when they talk about things like the new ship interiors and what not.

It's not that I think we're all that great in our back and forth with the devs. It's just, I think they're very very very well trained to sift out the noise. The rhetoric. The rants. And get to the meat of the issue that they can talk about.

What always entertains me the most on the forums, by the way ... is when folks get frustrated about the dev "silence."

Half the time the devs CAN'T respond to certain questions. Because they can't answer the question yet without going through their process. And the rest of the time, they can't answer the question because they don't have an adequate answer.

But that silence ... that's always the best tool to get a conspiracy thread going.

BAH

*Waves hand with a dismissing motion

(j/k)


I understand what you are saying
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
05-06-2010, 11:49 PM
I am personally of the opinion that many people use a tone that is way too harsh, and employ too much hyperbole. But this is not exactly unique to this board and something I see as a general internet symptom.

Still, there is a difference whether you just see this as a third party or this is directed at yourself. It's hard to just ignore the latter. Particularly because the core of the argument made often has truth to it - just the hyperbole and hatred swinging with it is overdone.

I seriously hope the community hasn't gone too far, and that the developers still listen carefully and figure out the core of the message and how they can fix the existing (or merely perceived) problems, but don't let it get to themselves.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
05-06-2010, 11:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by superchum View Post
I really think it's a matter of perspective. From the things I've read, they let you and some others get away with posting a lot more things than they let irate posters get away with on their Champions forums between November '09 and January '10.

So you look at your posts and actions taken and feel constrained. I can understand that. But I look at your posts and some of the responses those posts have garnered and think, wow, they're really loosening up compared to how they were with the Champs forums.
I resent this slightly, as I have seen what some of the irate posters on the Champs forums have posted. I like to think my posts are less emotional, organized, assertive, and statements I make are adequately supported by rational reasons. But by all means, correct me if I am wrong, provide me with examples, so that I may learn and improve.

Given the fact that I tend not to make sweeping insults like "Sector space sukZ" or "PvP is sooo lame sauce"... and also that I tend to be respectful of others and avoid making personal disbaragements, I'd say that comparing myself to the irate posters on the CO boards...is... well... perhaps I'm missing something superchum. The floor is now yours.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
05-06-2010, 11:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtomicFB
If you will look at my post history on the RAF most of them just express I didn't like the galaxy being a part. I admit for entirely selfish reasons. I wanted that ship and I didn't want to go through the trouble of getting 5 people signed on.


I do realize that you and I differ on our opinions on where the game might be in 12 months but I don't consider that an impediment to good debate.
As much as I love a good debate and am always prepared to take a side, any side will do, just give me 5 minutes to research I'll have to beg your leave.
It is 7:30 am, I have not been to bed and the election results have dried up ( hung parliament unless labour can manage a coalition with everyone except the right wing fascists. ) so I must get a few hours sleep.

sound your voice, it's not noise if you have a good cause.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
05-06-2010, 11:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtomicFB
Please, check your inbox.
checked

/ten chars
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
05-06-2010, 11:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
I am personally of the opinion that many people use a tone that is way too harsh, and employ too much hyperbole. But this is not exactly unique to this board and something I see as a general internet symptom.
Yeah, I definitely agree with that.

And you know, I see what Atomic's getting at. I really do. I think things would be a lot more constructive if some of the rhetoric was funnelled into more ... useful feedback?

The devs are willing to interact with us.

But they're really not going to be bothered with responding to harsh flaming, and we can't expect them to bother with that either.

So I see what Atomic means by going too far.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
05-06-2010, 11:54 PM
Nah, I don't think we went too far in some respects.
I have read a lot of the posts about the RAF program and the items that were involved and for the most part they were pretty civil with the exception of a few I will leave un-named and what was said.

It is fine to send a clear message early about some of these things, let your point be heard so they can gauge how well it will go over and it gives them an opportunity to restructure their idea before it all hits the fan.

If they had used the Excelsior, I can only imagine the outcry of anger.

At least with the response to the issue of the Enterprise ship, they now have an idea of their boundries with a decent amount of the community when it comes to future rewards for programs such as the RAF.

It's alright to be proactive and show your disgust, without criticism nothing would ever get changed.
Nothing wrong with voicing your opinions in a non-combative way.

Am I disappointed in their RAF giveaway of such an iconic thing and all that it looks like it is going to be able to do? Sure, but I will live.
Meh, this was not my first disappointment and will not be the last I am sure lol, but I will move on to more pressing matters at hand like keeping the battle going for more content for everyone and so forth.

Pretty much all that could have been said was said, pretty much time to move on at this point.
The outcome of the program will be the other tell of how well it went over.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
05-07-2010, 12:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacobFlowers View Post
I resent this slightly, as I have seen what some of the irate posters on the Champs forums have posted. I like to think my posts are less emotional, organized, assertive, and statements I make are adequately supported by rational reasons. But by all means, correct me if I am wrong, provide me with examples, so that I may learn and improve.

Given the fact that I tend not to make sweeping insults like "Sector space sukZ" or "PvP is sooo lame sauce"... and also that I tend to be respectful of others and avoid making personal disbaragements, I'd say that comparing myself to the irate posters on the CO boards...is... well... perhaps I'm missing something superchum. The floor is now yours.
I'm not trying to offend you. So I'll try to be a bit clearer I guess?

I read your post and what I thought you were saying was that you felt like you were being over-moderated? I am guessing you maybe felt you picked up some infraction points for things that you don't think you deserved them for?

My point was merely to state that ... I've seen much more heavy handed moderation on the Champions Forums for things. I've seen friends and strangers get moderated for things that really were surprising to me.

I can understand that you feel the way you do. No one likes to have their threads close. Or moved around. Or any other things the moderators might do to you. (It's really hard to talk about this without basically discussing their moderation policies, ugh).

So I understand how you feel.

I just ... have seen them be alot more strict with the Champions posters. And I've seen the Champions posters be a lot more deserving of said strictness.

I think discussion in these forums is actually much looser than it was there. And I know some folks think there's a lot of negativity here. But I see a lot more constructive back and forth here.

In my time over there, there was really only one developer ... the one working on their crafting system ... who would get into extensive discussions with the players. Answer questions fast. And give a lot of background info on the process.

It wasn't until Daeke was gone that I saw detailed posts from devs on their test forums about how they test things.

And I haven't been back since January, but I never saw them have anything as useful as the engineering reports here.

In an effort to give a personal anecdote ... I had something like 5 infractions in my time there. I felt 4 of them were ridiculous.

I have 0 here.

My personality hasn't changed. I still post the same way I did there.



I just think there's more reasonable discussion taking place here. I understand some folks might think I'm crazy for saying that.

EDIT: And just to clarify, I mention Daeke ONLY to give a frame of reference for time. My post does not blame that person for the things I saw or experienced. And in fact, the policy shift to be more open was happening with or without that person. So I'm not naming that person for any other reason than to give a point of time for when things changed. Up until that big hubub, I really only saw the crafting forum get fast, and extensive, dev interaction. After that whole hubub, there did start to be a lot more talking on the test forums. But I was already gone. Far too disillusioned with their process to find much solace in the change.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
05-07-2010, 12:09 AM
I stand by my outrage that the Galaxy-X will have unique game effects. I feel that this marks yet another step towards turning this game into a pay-for-power cash store MMO despite the endless blandishments to the contrary before release.
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