Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 31
05-07-2010, 01:09 AM
It should be an us vs them mentality. Cryptic and Atari shouldn't get away with what they've done, and people continuing to play nice, playing along, and worst of all keep subscribing, are doing great harm.

Regardless of what some of you think right now, this most likely isn't the last mmo you're going to try, and unless you want most mmos being rushed out messes like we've seen the last two or three years that instantly hemorrhage their populations like STO has, you need to start taking a stand.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 32
05-07-2010, 01:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by squidheadjax View Post
I stand by my outrage that the Galaxy-X will have unique game effects. I feel that this marks yet another step towards turning this game into a pay-for-power cash store MMO despite the endless blandishments to the contrary before release.
I think if they add a cloak, that it won't be exclusive to that ship. That cloaking on the fed side will be something that gets added as the game expands. So that ship will just be the teaser of what's to come.

As far as the super phaser cannon wave motion gun death star beam it can shoot?

That will either be a horrible weapon that's forced onto a cruiser that can't use it very well. Or it will be something akin to the red matter device. Either way, it will handicap the ship.

I wouldn't worry if I were you.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 33
05-07-2010, 01:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hagon View Post
It should be an us vs them mentality.
Unfortunately ...

If you paid money to purchase this game and play it ... you have already lost your fight.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 34
05-07-2010, 01:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by superchum View Post
I'm not trying to offend you. So I'll try to be a bit clearer I guess?

I read your post and what I thought you were saying was that you felt like you were being over-moderated? I am guessing you maybe felt you picked up some infraction points for things that you don't think you deserved them for?

My point was merely to state that ... I've seen much more heavy handed moderation on the Champions Forums for things. I've seen friends and strangers get moderated for things that really were surprising to me.

I can understand that you feel the way you do. No one likes to have their threads close. Or moved around. Or any other things the moderators might do to you. (It's really hard to talk about this without basically discussing their moderation policies, ugh).

So I understand how you feel.

I just ... have seen them be alot more strict with the Champions posters. And I've seen the Champions posters be a lot more deserving of said strictness.

I think discussion in these forums is actually much looser than it was there. And I know some folks think there's a lot of negativity here. But I see a lot more constructive back and forth here.

In my time over there, there was really only one developer ... the one working on their crafting system ... who would get into extensive discussions with the players. Answer questions fast. And give a lot of background info on the process.

It wasn't until Daeke was gone that I saw detailed posts from devs on their test forums about how they test things.

And I haven't been back since January, but I never saw them have anything as useful as the engineering reports here.

In an effort to give a personal anecdote ... I had something like 5 infractions in my time there. I felt 4 of them were ridiculous.

I have 0 here.

My personality hasn't changed. I still post the same way I did there.



I just think there's more reasonable discussion taking place here. I understand some folks might think I'm crazy for saying that.

EDIT: And just to clarify, I mention Daeke ONLy to give a frame of reference for time. My post does not blame that person for the things I saw or experienced. And in fact, the policy shift to be more open was happening with or without that person. So I'm not naming that person for any other reason than to give a point of time for when things changed. Up until that big hubub, I really only saw the crafting forum get fast, and extensive, dev interaction.
Ah, I see. I misunderstood you then, and I apologize for that. I see what you were saying.

Perhaps things are changing here. Since being hyper-active on these forums since the end of 2008, I've never once received so much as a warning for anything I've posted... until Phoxe stepped in.

And yes, we can't discuss the specifics, but needless to say... I feel Phoxe is abusing his position, and have sufficient reason to believe so. As for the CO forums... perhaps they needed to be super ban hammeresque... because those forums were FIERY. Can't blame them though, that product was less than stellar from what I have consistently heard/read/seen, not to mention all the fiascos and debacles they went through. Poor them (and poor Cryptic).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 35
05-07-2010, 01:18 AM
I think the argument over the RAF Enterprise. Went way to far. I think that it's strange to see that many people go crazy over that ship. I remember seeing it on the show and thought it was magnificent.

After seeing it later it was just in an alternate universe. For less than 30 seconds. They just duplicated the nacelle and pylon. Then welded it to the Enterprise model. Instead of designing a futuristic Enterprise. I really don't see that ship as all that iconic. If it had been in more episodes maybe. That was a good TNG show.

When I first saw the ship. I wanted it. When I saw I had to get 5 players to subscribe for one month. I knew there was no way I could get it. I don't believe because I subscribe to a MMO. I should be entitled to get every item in the game. I can also see why they don't want thousands flying around since it was only in one show for under thirty seconds.

I think the RAF riot went to far.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 36
05-07-2010, 01:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hagon View Post
It should be an us vs them mentality. Cryptic and Atari shouldn't get away with what they've done, and people continuing to play nice, playing along, and worst of all keep subscribing, are doing great harm.
Us vs. Them? Get away with what they've done? Doing great harm? ...Are you serious about any of that?

If you like the game subscribe and play it. If you dont, then dont. Its not a war. Its paid entertainment. If you're not entertained, pay for something else instead. But if someone is enjoying the game and continues to subscribe, there's nothing wrong with that.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 37
05-07-2010, 01:27 AM
I agree with most of the posts in this thread. I often see two valid feedback categories on the forums: 1) "Let's kick their f'n ass until they change this" And 2) "We love the game but we want this to change, here's why".

Category 1 is perceived as "crazies with pitchforks" by those in Category 2.

Category 2 is perceived as "fanboys, dev pets and sycophants" by those in Category 1.

In reality they are both on the same team, trying to make STO better in their own ways. But their approaches and mindsets are so extreme they will almost never recognize this.

Devs, on the other hand, are weary of having to sift through the flames of those in Category 1. You can see this in recent comments by Dstahl who went to bat for us over the Galaxy X (thank you btw!). And now the mods will be filing all feedback about marketing offers into a "special" more "organized" section of the forums. Uh huh...

Although I almost never post against people in Category 1 (because I too am passionate about certain things) I think the over-the-top negativity is starting to take it's toll. Keep fighting for what you believe in but pick your battles and consider how the devs might perceive any irate posts because more than likely they are starting to fall on deaf ears.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 38
05-07-2010, 01:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Englebert
I think the argument over the RAF Enterprise. Went way to far. I think that it's strange to see that many people go crazy over that ship. I remember seeing it on the show and thought it was magnificent.

After seeing it later it was just in an alternate universe. For less than 30 seconds. They just duplicated the nacelle and pylon. Then welded it to the Enterprise model. Instead of designing a futuristic Enterprise. I really don't see that ship as all that iconic. If it had been in more episodes maybe. That was a good TNG show.

When I first saw the ship. I wanted it. When I saw I had to get 5 players to subscribe for one month. I knew there was no way I could get it. I don't believe because I subscribe to a MMO. I should be entitled to get every item in the game. I can also see why they don't want thousands flying around since it was only in one show for under thirty seconds.

I think the RAF riot went to far.
This is a bit of a tangent but I hope I have a point ... heh.

So, like I was trying to think about what I would get that emotional or passionate about in terms of a reward put into a system I knew I couldn't achieve.

I admit ... I look at the RAF and think ... yeah, I can't get 5 people to do that. And it's absurd to buy 5 separate accounts.

So there's no way I could achieve that goal. But I look at the reward and am not interested.

How would I feel if it were a reward I wanted?

Well I'm a uniform FREAK! I absolutely go crazy for uniform variations.
I thought what if the reward was the uniform from that future time?

And realized I'd still not bother.

I think it's an ok uni, but I'm not worried I don't have it.

Then I rememberd ... one of the races the devs want to make playable is Deltans.

What if the reward for the RAF were ... the Motion Picture Uniforms?

I found my catalyst.

I'd be freaking out because those I'd want.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 39
05-07-2010, 01:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirror-Master
Keep fighting for what you believe in but pick your battles and consider how the devs might perceive any irate posts
Wooooooooooooooo. This!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 40
05-07-2010, 01:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hagon View Post
It should be an us vs them mentality. Cryptic and Atari shouldn't get away with what they've done, and people continuing to play nice, playing along, and worst of all keep subscribing, are doing great harm.

Regardless of what some of you think right now, this most likely isn't the last mmo you're going to try, and unless you want most mmos being rushed out messes like we've seen the last two or three years that instantly hemorrhage their populations like STO has, you need to start taking a stand.
An us vs. them mentality is almost never a good idea. Rushed mmos that instantly lose their subscriber bases are, amazingly, less productive than ones that keep their sub bases. No mmo ever has gone into production witth the mindset of "We'll get a bunch of money on the box sales to cover our losses and then hope that we keep enough subs to keep the servers up".

The developers want this game to be as good as we do. You think they don't play games? There are a few people there who I know love Mass Effect 2, they've played WoW and other AAA MMOs. If anything it should be us and the developers against Atari. But then it might not even be their fault because they're doing really badly right now and they need every last bit of cash they can get, Atari made some bad choices and now STO is paying for them.
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