Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 81
05-15-2010, 12:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jnoh
Addendum: Based on your statement and the color of your name, I presume then you are among the LTS holders seeking to have Borg captain races given to anyone? You have no issue with TCT, LB, "Career Officer" and your other perks becoming commonplace?
As long as things like the MU uniforms remain non-obtainable then no, i do not want to see anyone else get the original LTS perks etc.
However if the MU Uniforms were to become obtainable then yes, i would not mind others being able to attain the Liberated Borg etc.

I did not mean that you specificly had a superiority complex, but unfortunatley i have had some bad experiences with some MU owners that have been all high and mighty and actually been trolling and flamebaiting(and been Banned for it).
So yeah, nothing personal there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by personae
As explained earlier the fuss isn't about feeling superior. Its about having to pay hundreds to get something that becomes available for a few dollars less than a month later. Simple as that.

Any alternate method of getting them past the 400 day mark is fine with me. Vet reward just makes the most sense at that point.
That would suggest that the MU uniform was worth hundreds of dollars, which it clearly was not since those hundreds of dollars were for a whole package of things including a lifetime subscribtion which alone would be worth even more hundreds of dollars.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 82
05-15-2010, 12:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by personae
As explained earlier the fuss isn't about feeling superior. Its about having to pay hundreds to get something that becomes available for a few dollars less than a month later. Simple as that.

Any alternate method of getting them past the 400 day mark is fine with me. Vet reward just makes the most sense at that point.
Cryptics desicion to make customers buy a CO lifetime for the MU's was/is a very poor decision. Anyone, who knows anything about Star Trek could see the trouble coming the second the idea was conceived. It alienated the Star Trek fans to make something so important in Star Trek lore available by investing over $200 in another game.

It was/is unfair to those that felt they had to spend the money to get the Uniforms, but had no interesst in a lifetime CO sub. It is unfair to the paying customer Cryptic has in STO.

The best thing Cryptic could do is to offer anyone who has a STO sub a full rebate on their CO lifetime subs that had the MU's in them. Then the Mu's should be made available for a moderate amount of Cryptic points in the C-Store.

MU's for a lifetime sub in another game... whats next?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 83
05-15-2010, 12:15 PM
Rebate, are you serious?
If peoples sole motivation for buying the CO LTS was the MU uniform then thats their problem.
The value of the CO LTS alone like i greater than the price paid, hence no rebate would be in order.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 84
05-15-2010, 12:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexraptor View Post
Rebate, are you serious?
If peoples sole motivation for buying the CO LTS was the MU uniform then thats their problem.
The value of the CO LTS alone like i greater than the price paid, hence no rebate would be in order.
That would suggest that CO's lifetime offer was worth it on its own merits at the time it was offered. And it wasn't. Whether you like it or not, they did use the MU uniforms and the guaranteed beta access to sell it.

Because of this, a Vet reward is fair. Note I'm not saying a vet reward in CO, but a Vet reward in STO. That would honor at least the spirit of the offer, while still allowing an alternate method of obtaining them.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 85
05-15-2010, 12:30 PM
I think the cart and horse have been interpreted as being in the wrong order.

The MU & Beta Access was added to the CO LTS to increase the LTS's value to CO players.

To interpret that as being targeted at STO players seems a bit strange to me, as there are likely a very small number willing and able to drop $200 just to get a single top, belt, and badge. That was the INTENTION, at any rate. I think it would be amusing to hear what people think should have been used instead to set apart CO LTSers in STO.

My CO LTS is now underutilized, to be sure, but only because that game has failed to retain my interests. It is a sad commentary on the times to see so many assume anyone with a CO LTS who plays STO got that LTS just for the STO perks. I suppose ti is because many of them were willing to do so, but not able?

What ever happened to sour grapes? these days, the fox thinks the grapes have a superiority complex and should be cut down???
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 86
05-15-2010, 12:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by personae
That would suggest that CO's lifetime offer was worth it on its own merits at the time it was offered. And it wasn't. Whether you like it or not, they did use the MU uniforms and the guaranteed beta access to sell it.

Because of this, a Vet reward is fair. Note I'm not saying a vet reward in CO, but a Vet reward in STO. That would honor at least the spirit of the offer, while still allowing an alternate method of obtaining them.
I disagree, slightly. I still maintain like you that alternate means to obtaining Mirror Universe uniforms become available, but I continue to insist that the uniqueness of the particular CO LTS uniform be maintained.

That said, I think the Kirk MU from TOS would be just fine as a 400+ day vet reward, but the Spock MU from TOS we have as CO LTS should not.


Unfortunately, I believe CO has determined that the CO LTS costume pieces for CO will become vet rewards in CO... then again I have that information second hand. (Correction, there appears to be 2 costumes from this, one "exclusive" and not vet reward material, another "limited" and there is debate on that coming to a future vet system)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 87
05-15-2010, 12:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexraptor View Post
Rebate, are you serious?
If peoples sole motivation for buying the CO LTS was the MU uniform then thats their problem.
The value of the CO LTS alone like i greater than the price paid, hence no rebate would be in order.
Well, those that truly want a CO LTS would not request a refund when offered.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 88
05-15-2010, 01:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jnoh
I think the cart and horse have been interpreted as being in the wrong order.

The MU & Beta Access was added to the CO LTS to increase the LTS's value to CO players.
This is the crux of the matter. Cryptic made a very poor choice in offering the MU on the CO LTS. I have posted it before and will post again that the MU is a very important part of Star Trek lore. Making them available only to those willing to shell out $200 for another game was a very, very bad move that had trouble written all over it.

Beta access and a borg tribble or unique CO themed BO would have been more fitting.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 89
05-15-2010, 03:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jnoh
And the statement of the items being "Unique" occurs 16 days later on the 20th. (Unique was in the initial offer, because It described the TYPE of uniforms, Unique Mirror Universe uniform set. Cryptic just removed the exclusive from the MU post due to the negative feed back(91 pages) of having to subscribe to CO for $200 to receive the MU set.)

This is all really simple to end if someone would step up from the team and end it.

I'll even accept "we still haven't decided, 9 months later"

Can we at least agree that the evidence is not clear, and our interpretations of it, despite being opposed, are both based on insufficient information?

Please find something more recent than 8/20/2009 which either omits or outright denies exclusivity. "Unique" is debatable, and I concede it is not definitive, but I also firmly stand against this matter being closed unless and until the policy is defined in clear words by the team, here and now.
I agree that more information is better than less, The facts presented by all strongly support my case. I will agree at bare minimum that the information due to poor launch communication may need to be followed up with the community. The information as it currently stands decisively supports my conclusion. I will further say that their is missing information, and that is in what offer or by what means will the MU uniforms be available again?

It is my opinion that Cryptic realized they had made a mistake offering the MU uniforms with the CO LTS based off of the STO forums prelaunch initial advertisement offer that received Very Strong NEGATIVE Feed back, Then Cryptic Changed the offer before it went live to appease the STO forum people, by removing the exclusivity from the advertisement, and then felt they could not make everyone happy, so then they answered everyone in vague manner, so that the STO people were happy with the Non Exclusivity change, and soft/ vague enough that the CO people would not burst into flames with anger. To further appease the CO people came out and said we do not know when the uniforms will be available again.
Vague in this matter would be creating a loophole for non exclusivity, and not coming out and saying in bold letters we changed the exclusivity status prior to launch, they silently just removed it from the offer. Thus taking the exclusivity out of the final purchaser agreement/ advertisement, slipping it in under the noses of those who purchased the CO LTS . Doing so in this manner kept everyone calm.

I have drawn this conclusion based on the facts I have investigated and submitted to evidence for all to see.
This opinion summarizes all the known facts and tell the story of what they mean in context to this offer.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 90
05-16-2010, 03:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by picardalpha2clearance View Post
I agree that more information is better than less, The facts presented by all strongly support my case. I will agree at bare minimum that the information due to poor launch communication may need to be followed up with the community. The information as it currently stands decisively supports my conclusion. I will further say that their is missing information, and that is in what offer or by what means will the MU uniforms be available again?

It is my opinion that Cryptic realized they had made a mistake offering the MU uniforms with the CO LTS based off of the STO forums prelaunch initial advertisement offer that received Very Strong NEGATIVE Feed back, Then Cryptic Changed the offer before it went live to appease the STO forum people, by removing the exclusivity from the advertisement, and then felt they could not make everyone happy, so then they answered everyone in vague manner, so that the STO people were happy with the Non Exclusivity change, and soft/ vague enough that the CO people would not burst into flames with anger. To further appease the CO people came out and said we do not know when the uniforms will be available again.
Vague in this matter would be creating a loophole for non exclusivity, and not coming out and saying in bold letters we changed the exclusivity status prior to launch, they silently just removed it from the offer. Thus taking the exclusivity out of the final purchaser agreement/ advertisement, slipping it in under the noses of those who purchased the CO LTS . Doing so in this manner kept everyone calm.

I have drawn this conclusion based on the facts I have investigated and submitted to evidence for all to see.
This opinion summarizes all the known facts and tell the story of what they mean in context to this offer.
It is well stated, and well founded, yes. A valid interpretation of the clues, despite the lack of an actual concrete statement. Lets call it a "circumstantially supported theory." I have a different interpretation, based on the same exact evidence, but including the lack of concrete evidence: That while brought into question and reviewed, the matter remains unsettled, not decided. That removing a phrase does not only indicate the opposing idea is now true, and that the final decision simply was never met. I feel both interpretations are valid - that the policy was reversed, and that the policy underwent review (and all wording was altered to reflect the policy was in question).

Show me the decision itself, and I'll concede. The only decision so far in all this has, obviously, been to change the wording of the offer, repeatedly, and to state that the future status is unknown.

Sounds to me like backpedaling and spin, but not policy.


Now, please take note, while I have my hopes on how this will turn out, I am continually debunking any decisive community statements specifically to call out the need for a decisive team statement. I want to know what they decided, in their words, on this forum. Not omission of a word, not "tbd" and not confusing things with new words. Back and white, simple statement defining the policy once and for all, and extending it to all "exclusive" rewards (to settle other debates).

Lets face it, the Schroeder's Cat experiment ultimately always ends with a dead cat if the box is never opened. The cause of death becomes the difference, assuming a limited supply of food is in the box. While a strange analogy, I think they expected the matter to be put to rest the same way - the matter would die down if they never reveal the result, eventually it would be a dead issue. Seems this time, they were wrong.
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