Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 171
05-19-2010, 05:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Onisius
They were the first to do it, so they had to make it up as they went.

As for character development, none of the ST versions has character development. Different writers portrayed the characters differently.
Lack of character development is a ST tradition.
Dude, astronauts of today with their missions have procedures and plans to deal with virtually ANY situation. Is it too much to ask that they at least TRY that with Enterprise's crew?

Archer's speeches for example to new alien of the week for example. He bumbles through talking to them and he also talks to them as if they were retarded. He also goes as far to give Earth's location to them. Think about the stupidity of that. Giving our homeworld's location... to a bunch of alliens who may or may not be hostile. Doesn't that strike you as incredibly stupid.

As for character development... have you ever watched the other series. In TOS we have the relationships between Kirk, Spock and Bones develop and grow. In TNG we have a new crew that gains alot of experience and their characteristics change as the show went on. In DS9 we have O'Brien who started in TNG as a low level character ... if that isn't character development I don't know what is. Bashir also develops from being a wide-eyed graduate to what he ended the series as... a doc that has seen death and horrible things and is more experience because of what he's been through. In Voyager... we have a starfleet and maquis crew... the potential here was limitless... until they made them all act like Starfleet lap dogs...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 172
05-19-2010, 05:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dooso View Post
Dude, astronauts of today with their missions have procedures and plans to deal with virtually ANY situation. Is it too much to ask that they at least TRY that with Enterprise's crew?

Archer's speeches for example to new alien of the week for example. He bumbles through talking to them and he also talks to them as if they were retarded. He also goes as far to give Earth's location to them. Think about the stupidity of that. Giving our homeworld's location... to a bunch of alliens who may or may not be hostile. Doesn't that strike you as incredibly stupid.

As for character development... have you ever watched the other series. In TOS we have the relationships between Kirk, Spock and Bones develop and grow. In TNG we have a new crew that gains alot of experience and their characteristics change as the show went on. In DS9 we have O'Brien who started in TNG as a low level character ... if that isn't character development I don't know what is. Bashir also develops from being a wide-eyed graduate to what he ended the series as... a doc that has seen death and horrible things and is more experience because of what he's been through. In Voyager... we have a starfleet and maquis crew... the potential here was limitless... until they made them all act like Starfleet lap dogs...
Dude... I have watched it all.
Not on DVD either, I saw it when they came out, I'm not one of the youngins here.

If you want to see character development, watch Babylon 5 from beginning to end. Even minor characters evolved over the course of the five year series.
ST's version of character development is lame at best. ST is not quality storytelling, never has been.
It's about the technobabble and the alien de jour.
I have been loving ST for 40+ years, but I accept it for what it is and it is not well written or well acted. Not in any of the series. Yet I still watched every episode of every series. For better or worse.

I do agree that Bashir showed and excellent progression, I like him and Garak most of all in DS9.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 173
05-19-2010, 06:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Onisius
Dude... I have watched it all.
Not on DVD either, I saw it when they came out, I'm not one of the youngins here.

If you want to see character development, watch Babylon 5 from beginning to end. Even minor characters evolved over the course of the five year series.
ST's version of character development is lame at best. ST is not quality storytelling, never has been.
It's about the technobabble and the alien de jour.
I have been loving ST for 40+ years, but I accept it for what it is and it is not well written or well acted. Not in any of the series. Yet I still watched every episode of every series. For better or worse.

I do agree that Bashir showed and excellent progression, I like him and Garak most of all in DS9.
Eh, I haven't become bored enough to watch Babylon 5.... I think I saw a couple episodes on TV once but w/o more backstory I didn't really get into it.

ST has some good character development... not the best but it's good. And I agree that few ST stories put out a good story, the rise of technobabble started taking hold with TNG and became dominant in Voyager and ENT.

Yea, Bashir and Garak had some great development both with their own characters and between the two. DS9 episodes always seemed to be better if Garak was in em
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 174
05-19-2010, 06:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Onisius
Dude... I have watched it all.
Not on DVD either, I saw it when they came out, I'm not one of the youngins here.

If you want to see character development, watch Babylon 5 from beginning to end. Even minor characters evolved over the course of the five year series.
ST's version of character development is lame at best. ST is not quality storytelling, never has been.
It's about the technobabble and the alien de jour.
I have been loving ST for 40+ years, but I accept it for what it is and it is not well written or well acted. Not in any of the series. Yet I still watched every episode of every series. For better or worse.

I do agree that Bashir showed and excellent progression, I like him and Garak most of all in DS9.
I have to disagree. While it was certainly not cutting-edge drama most of it was pretty solid. Watching them now they do feel a bit dated, especially when compared to things like Battlestar Galactica, but at the time it was good stuff. It wasn't until Berman and Braga took over Voyager that everything starting going to hell.

So many of the characters were given believable backstories that defined them. The characters had relationships that came and went (and for some, even children). There were dozens of episodes that would focus solely on one character to fill them out, giving us insight into their past or present to further flesh them out. I dare say most of the episodes in TNG, DS9, and the first few years of Voyager were character driven. Not all, but a very large chunk of them.

If anything, it's Enterprise that was all about the "alien of the week".
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 175
05-19-2010, 06:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainFabulous
I have to disagree. While it was certainly not cutting-edge drama most of it was pretty solid. Watching them now they do feel a bit dated, especially when compared to things like Battlestar Galactica, but at the time it was good stuff. It wasn't until Berman and Braga took over Voyager that everything starting going to hell.

So many of the characters were given believable backstories that defined them. The characters had relationships that came and went (and for some, even children). There were dozens of episodes that would focus solely on one character to fill them out, giving us insight into their past or present to further flesh them out. I dare say most of the episodes in TNG, DS9, and the first few years of Voyager were character driven. Not all, but a very large chunk of them.

If anything, it's Enterprise that was all about the "alien of the week".
Don't lump Voyager in with TNG and DS9... here's an example of Voyager character driven series:

Torres episodes: She either has to fix something, screw something or get mad at something

Chakotay episodes: He is either babbling non-sensical 'indian' jargon and legends invented by the white writers of the show or doing the complete opposite and getting into trouble with violence.

Harry episodes: he is the human tree that barely manages to look hetero

Janeway episodes: she seems to thrive on contradicting herself. She gets her crew into dangerous situations or is trying to get them out of said dangerous situations... she's either spouting the starfleet gospel or she is kicking it to the curb for the episode
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 176
05-19-2010, 07:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grey_Ghost
Star Trek : Enterprise was getting so much better in the latter part of it's last season, I was sorry to see it go. There were a lot of things that annoyed me about it, like the whole Temporal Cold War crap, but overall I enjoyed the series. I still watch it in syndication from time to time.

I wish we could get a new Star Trek TV series in the near future, sure has been boring without one.
I remember when it was first airing I didnt like it at all so I hardly watched it. the theme song was a big hurdle for me plus it seemed like they were trying to rewrite to much of Star Trek Canon.

In retrospect it might have just been to early for them to start the series. WE just went through TNG, DS9, and VOY in one big stretch. They needed to give Trekkies some time to rest and start foaming at the mouth for more trek. I think ENT would have been a bigger hit if they had.

Why? Well I can only speak for myself but I've recently started watching the ENT episodes strait through and I'm really enjoying it. I'm almost done with Season 2. I think I was burnt out on Trek when ENT was finally started but now I'm ready for more Trek and ENT is the only series I've never really watched.

It saddens me to see all the cool things they had planned for season 5 as well. Kzinti, Shran as part of the Crew, The Refit...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 177
05-19-2010, 07:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Onisius
Another drive-by in Tucson, now there's a shocker. lol

For those that don''t know, Zona and I live in the same city.
Ahhhhhh it's funny because it's true lol.

But that wasn't a drive by shooting, more of a drive-by argument.....well...you didn't get the chance to argue back so more a Drive-by expression of opinion.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 178
05-20-2010, 12:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inquizitor View Post
In retrospect it might have just been to early for them to start the series. WE just went through TNG, DS9, and VOY in one big stretch. They needed to give Trekkies some time to rest and start foaming at the mouth for more trek. I think ENT would have been a bigger hit if they had.

Why? Well I can only speak for myself but I've recently started watching the ENT episodes strait through and I'm really enjoying it. I'm almost done with Season 2. I think I was burnt out on Trek when ENT was finally started but now I'm ready for more Trek and ENT is the only series I've never really watched.

It saddens me to see all the cool things they had planned for season 5 as well. Kzinti, Shran as part of the Crew, The Refit...
Agreed. Though tbh, Ent was never shown that much here in the UK. Either early mornings or at night.

But a new, fresh ST is just what we need to re-vitalise the franchise. Abrahms trek (XI), to me, seemed like any other sci-fi film of late - Bang, bang , something in trouble, yadda yadda, Bang, BOOOM.

A series in the same sortof timeframe as DS9 would be good, though more in the TNG era than VOY.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 179
05-20-2010, 04:43 AM
The sad part for me was not the show itself, though I iwsh ST writers would lay off of time travel. The sad part was that there was a lot of great potneital in the era they picked and they missed it. You have the first Romulan War, if I recall there was a war with the Orions as well near the same time plus contact with the First Federation. Plus lets not forget the forming of the Federation.

Could the series have been better obsolutely, however the same can be said for EVERY ST series. They all had moments where you saw a plot line begin and could get excited because of the great TV you saw coming and then they all dropped the ball.

Enterprise to me was a decent show and I have actually begun going back through the series again just this last week. In some ways I think it could have been a more fun era for STO to have been set in.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 180
05-20-2010, 06:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Knight
The sad part for me was not the show itself, though I iwsh ST writers would lay off of time travel. The sad part was that there was a lot of great potneital in the era they picked and they missed it. You have the first Romulan War, if I recall there was a war with the Orions as well near the same time plus contact with the First Federation. Plus lets not forget the forming of the Federation.

Could the series have been better obsolutely, however the same can be said for EVERY ST series. They all had moments where you saw a plot line begin and could get excited because of the great TV you saw coming and then they all dropped the ball.

Enterprise to me was a decent show and I have actually begun going back through the series again just this last week. In some ways I think it could have been a more fun era for STO to have been set in.
it not as bad as many say but it could have been epic
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:17 PM.