Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1 PvP Observations
06-13-2010, 12:32 AM
This is just a few things I have noticed about PvP from a completely novice perspective.

General -
1. Maps - There are TOO many available maps, and often you will see a stack of Federation Queued for one map, while Klingons are all lined up for another. With neither side getting to actually play.
FIX - Have a daily selection of one of each type of map. Cycle the maps so they all get a fair shake, and keep 1-2 up every day, but when there are literally 28 (I just counted) selections to flip through, it just serves to keep games from launching. Also allow single players to Q for first available game.

Ground -
1. Ground General - Control is a bit overdone in places on the ground, I have had times in which I was stunned for several seconds, got up and within a very short period was stunned for another several seconds. Meaning over the course of ~12 seconds i was in control of my character for 3s. I have also disabled others using the knockdown attack.
FIX - Add effect for players, any control effect will make them immune to that effect for 10s after its expiration.

2. Ground General - Potions.. err I mean Health/Shield generators, I don't 100% know if I consider this an issue as they cost almost nothing, but many PvP matches completely revolve around these. As in if you run out mid match you lose a huge part of your effectiveness. Also the ability of everyone to fully heal themselves every 15s or so limits the power of the SCI kits.
FIX - Increase cooldown on heal/shield regenerators.

3. Ground General - Balanced Sides, often matches will end up being 3v1 or 2v4 or any other such imbalanced side (I would assume because the match started b/c enough people were in Q and some ended up being afk).
FIX - Although its not realistic to allow it in FvK games, in FvF and KvK games if sides are obviously uneven, force swap a team member so the sides are at least numerically even.

4. Ground Arena 1 - The respawning system on this (randomly respawn players at a point anywhere on the map) fosters the following happening in most ground arenas. Both sides group up, then both hesitantly advance on each other, whichever side wins this clash between groups, then proceeds to run through the map annihilating any stragglers when they respawn (as they respawn alone), this continues unless the other team gets really lucky, or the other team is just able to flee and regroup. Sometimes the initial fight will determine the outcome of the entire game.
FIX - Each team needs a protected spawn area, so when they do get defeated they can reliably regroup to at least attempt the match again.

5. Ground Arena 2 - When groups get together, they tend to like to drop all the engineer items (med/shield gens) and just stay put. Often both sides will do this. As there is no direct incentive to assault the other team.
FIX - First fix should help a bit, another possibility is to add environment effects that move about the areas, For example one is a damaged ship, so plasma might occasionally leak in different rooms, forcing a turtled group to evacuate.

Space -
1. Space - Arena - These maps have a klingon bias, in so much as there is 0 reason to decloak until you have completely formed your group, selected targets and are ready to attack, much the same as the ground arenas, except for the fact that one side has an inherent advantage in regrouping.
FIX - This is mainly a problem with PUGs as a premade should have methods of dealing with cloak available. So any changes shouldn't horribly upset a premade balance. One possible fix could be to have objects spawn at random locations on the map that when activated unleash a wave disabling cloak/shields for a few moments (I mention both so it wouldn't be a 1-sided objective) thus the klingons will have a time limit when the object spawns.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
06-13-2010, 01:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thethain View Post
This is just a few things I have noticed about PvP from a completely novice perspective.

General -
1. Maps - There are TOO many available maps, and often you will see a stack of Federation Queued for one map, while Klingons are all lined up for another. With neither side getting to actually play.
FIX - Have a daily selection of one of each type of map. Cycle the maps so they all get a fair shake, and keep 1-2 up every day, but when there are literally 28 (I just counted) selections to flip through, it just serves to keep games from launching. Also allow single players to Q for first available game.
I think a much simpler approach would be to make the daily "Fight in 3 PvP matches" so the people that want to Arena can do so, the people that want to CnH can do so and the people that want to farm Ker'rat can do so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thethain View Post
Ground -
1. Ground General - Control is a bit overdone in places on the ground, I have had times in which I was stunned for several seconds, got up and within a very short period was stunned for another several seconds. Meaning over the course of ~12 seconds i was in control of my character for 3s. I have also disabled others using the knockdown attack.
FIX - Add effect for players, any control effect will make them immune to that effect for 10s after its expiration.
I don't really have a problem with roots and holds. My only real issue in ground is the rifle butt spam. And I don't even mind it providing a hold or an expose. I simply think that a change to rifle butt alone providing immunity from rifle butt induced holds would be nice. It's possible to avoid the spam, but it can be REALLY annoying if someone gets close and gets that first-hit hold.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thethain View Post
2. Ground General - Potions.. err I mean Health/Shield generators, I don't 100% know if I consider this an issue as they cost almost nothing, but many PvP matches completely revolve around these. As in if you run out mid match you lose a huge part of your effectiveness. Also the ability of everyone to fully heal themselves every 15s or so limits the power of the SCI kits.
FIX - Increase cooldown on heal/shield regenerators.
If you think the ground devices limit the usefulness of the sci kits, you need to play with someone who knows how to heal and is specced into it. I can promise you that in no way, shape or form do they decrease the usefulness of sci kits. I don't know how FS does it, but when I was ground PvPing regularly I rarely used devices for their primary effect anyway. I'd say 95% of device usage on my part was to clear a hold, expose or weapons malfunction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thethain View Post
3. Ground General - Balanced Sides, often matches will end up being 3v1 or 2v4 or any other such imbalanced side (I would assume because the match started b/c enough people were in Q and some ended up being afk).
FIX - Although its not realistic to allow it in FvK games, in FvF and KvK games if sides are obviously uneven, force swap a team member so the sides are at least numerically even.
This is not just a problem in ground. It's a problem with the queue system in general, and I agree it needs immediate attention.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thethain View Post
4. Ground Arena 1 - The respawning system on this (randomly respawn players at a point anywhere on the map) fosters the following happening in most ground arenas. Both sides group up, then both hesitantly advance on each other, whichever side wins this clash between groups, then proceeds to run through the map annihilating any stragglers when they respawn (as they respawn alone), this continues unless the other team gets really lucky, or the other team is just able to flee and regroup. Sometimes the initial fight will determine the outcome of the entire game.
FIX - Each team needs a protected spawn area, so when they do get defeated they can reliably regroup to at least attempt the match again.
Team up beforehand. Keep your map open, locate your teammates and as soon as you spawn, run like hell toward them (unless they're getting butchered, then run like hell toward a predesignated rally point). This will mitigate about 90% of the threat of the team that runs around the map picking off enemies 1 by 1.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thethain View Post
5. Ground Arena 2 - When groups get together, they tend to like to drop all the engineer items (med/shield gens) and just stay put. Often both sides will do this. As there is no direct incentive to assault the other team.
FIX - First fix should help a bit, another possibility is to add environment effects that move about the areas, For example one is a damaged ship, so plasma might occasionally leak in different rooms, forcing a turtled group to evacuate.
This is something I had a major problem with. Especially since the click boxes of deployables are (or at least used to be) so large. Despite repeated efforts to change settings around to never target deployables, I almost always end up targeting a turret or shield gen when I hit tab. And with the large clickboxes if I attempt to manually fix the issue I still end up clicking on a deployable half the time. This has been a big source of frustration for me. I generally don't have a problem with deployables in terms of their function and wouldn't seriously mind leaving things as is. However, with targeting being as borked as it is for me, the deployable spam can really suck.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
06-18-2010, 06:44 AM
The problem is not too many maps.

It's the interface being so cumbersome. Loading PvP should not be Excel Sheets: Arena!

Fortunately, a few of us are banding together to fix this.

Check this thread out:
http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...d.php?t=163507

Quote:
Benefits:
  • User-friendly interface design
    • Less Clutter
    • Shorter list
    • More intuitive

  • Scales better for
    • new factions
    • new maps
    • new PvP modes
    • new map sizes

  • Cycles maps (no wasted maps at bottom of list)

  • Integrated PvP Channel chatbox

  • Private Match System would not be affected - power users can be at peace for their PvP match creation.
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