Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 91
07-10-2010, 09:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirror-Master
I look at the C-Store for what Zinc originally said... it's a way for the devs to do things they could not otherwise do w/o that revenue.

I also see a worst case scenario where STO is forced to go F2P. And in that case, they are definitely prepared for the future with all the C-Store items. People may not like this but hey - they gotta be prepared for the best and the worst.

So, please... put everything into the C-Store and let people buy what they want in addition to equivalent items we can obtain in game. Although I hate the past Cryptic Marketing fiascos I never want to see STO die. Gotta have my trek game to play!
Looking at some of the rumored financials coming out of DDO, I don't think Turbine is taking LOTRO into a hybrid F2P/VIP model thinking it is a worst case scenario. In fact I think they are excited to do it because it will most likely increase success as it did with DDO.

I think everyone in the industry will be watching LOTRO very closely to see how it pans out.

As far as STO and the C-Store... we are always looking at what people want, what they are asking for, and what's not selling. We want to make the items you want and having a mechanism like the C-Store gets us bigger budgets and more manpower to make more stuff faster.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 92
07-10-2010, 10:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dstahl View Post
As far as STO and the C-Store... we are always looking at what people want, what they are asking for, and what's not selling. We want to make the items you want and having a mechanism like the C-Store gets us bigger budgets and more manpower to make more stuff faster.
It's why i think that all arguments saying that Cryptic is one house full of money hungry suits falls to the ground.

It's like stating the obvious. And by beeing obvious, it means it ain't a bad thing.
Of course Cryptic needs money. The more money they make, the bigger the team gets. The bigger the team gets, the faster the game grows, and the faster the game grows... It's a win-win scenario. In nature this is called mutual cooperation.


Look at that other MMO.. its a cash cow for its development house. Its also the biggest and most successfull MMO around. That ain't a coincidence.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 93
07-10-2010, 11:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruivo
It's why i think that all arguments saying that Cryptic is one house full of money hungry suits falls to the ground.

It's like stating the obvious. And by beeing obvious, it means it ain't a bad thing.
Of course Cryptic needs money. The more money they make, the bigger the team gets. The bigger the team gets, the faster the game grows, and the faster the game grows... It's a win-win scenario. In nature this is called mutual cooperation.


Look at that other MMO.. its a cash cow for its development house. Its also the biggest and most successfull MMO around. That ain't a coincidence.
the c-store is the one thing i actually like paying for, because i know every purchase helps the game i love, and i get something cool in return.

everyone is trying to make money but no one is forced to buy anything on the c-store

yes it would be nice if everything was free but id rather pay extra and see sto develop at a faster pace and have a more secure future
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 94
07-11-2010, 12:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dstahl View Post
. You may not like that we're a business, but we want to deliver the goods and ships you're asking for and this is one way we can do it.
Well depends on your idea of a business. No offense, but the ole dot bomb times really never helped out the cause for software companies. After all, ya'll got me rich enough given that I bailed before the bust, but the entire process of "if we code it, they will come" kinda fell flat on its face.

That being said, I hope the hell your profit motivated. The one thing that scares more than anything else is this phrase :

"Hi, we are here from the government and we are here to help!"

In any case, I degress.

What my respond was saying is that if you are relying on C-Store micro-transactions at this time, your pretty much hosed. From what you said, it sounds like we are on the same page. You confirmed that they C-Store is auxillary revenue in which helps expedite the release of content. The way your statement came off originally was that it was needed - which got me to make my previous statement.

Finally for the efficiency standpoint, I am glad to hear you are small. Tells me that more money goes to the game over a bunch of programmers (no offense to the occupation - just in a bit of a tiff with the programmers on some software upgrades at work - so not a fan of em at the moment). Plus less overhead = less expenses. Less expenses = lower breakeven which in turn means you can survive on a smaller player base.

Blakinik
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 95
07-11-2010, 12:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dstahl View Post
Looking at some of the rumored financials coming out of DDO, I don't think Turbine is taking LOTRO into a hybrid F2P/VIP model thinking it is a worst case scenario. In fact I think they are excited to do it because it will most likely increase success as it did with DDO.
You're right. I'm thinking Old School Business Model = Win which isn't true any more. There's more than one way to skin the cat now. I guess we have to get it out of our heads that Going F2P = Fail.

But I would warn you against having STO go F2P in the next few years. Can you imagine the riots from Lifers and all the people who will think STO failed?? Good Lord... it will make previous marketing fiasco's seem like nothing...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 96
07-11-2010, 01:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirror-Master
You're right. I'm thinking Old School Business Model = Win which isn't true any more. There's more than one way to skin the cat now. I guess we have to get it out of our heads that Going F2P = Fail.

But I would warn you against having STO go F2P in the next few years. Can you imagine the riots from Lifers and all the people who will think STO failed?? Good Lord... it will make previous marketing fiasco's seem like nothing...
I could easily see STO going into a hybrid model similar to what Lotro is doing. In that model, subscriptions stay as is - but you allow people to play for free but heavily limit what they can do - which in essence creates a robust way to demo the game and then if you want to keep playing, you either pay for every little thing you are interested in, or you subscribe and don't have to worry about it.

Turbine seems to have some interesting plans and looking at how DDO has turned around, its worth taking note.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 97
07-11-2010, 02:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dstahl View Post
I could easily see STO going into a hybrid model similar to what Lotro is doing. In that model, subscriptions stay as is - but you allow people to play for free but heavily limit what they can do - which in essence creates a robust way to demo the game and then if you want to keep playing, you either pay for every little thing you are interested in, or you subscribe and don't have to worry about it.

Turbine seems to have some interesting plans and looking at how DDO has turned around, its worth taking note.
Definitely something worth studying during Q2 or Q3 2011 (which should be around the time it becomes clear how well or not LOTRO does).

I really enjoyed DDO. However, there were significant content gaps (ones much larger than anything STO has on the Federation side). It was even worse during launch of DDO.

Anyways, I'm a huge D&D fan and am excited to see where DDO goes in the future (considering they came back to life on both the subscriber and developer end).

Instancing in both games is an interesting concept that STO already explores.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 98
07-11-2010, 02:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dstahl View Post
I could easily see STO going into a hybrid model similar to what Lotro is doing. In that model, subscriptions stay as is - but you allow people to play for free but heavily limit what they can do - which in essence creates a robust way to demo the game and then if you want to keep playing, you either pay for every little thing you are interested in, or you subscribe and don't have to worry about it.

Turbine seems to have some interesting plans and looking at how DDO has turned around, its worth taking note.
"Every little thing" would suck.

But looking at Mass Effect and Dragon Age... those are DLC's i gladly pay for!
They add Playtime to the Game, Levels, Voiceovers, Items all in one pack for a few $.


In STO this could mean... $10 for entering Gamma Orionis Sector Block... $10 for the next one etc.
Including every mission, quest, exploration Sector and Items that i could get there. (i never want to see any Items on the C-Store that get placed in my inventory after purchase... if there is one thing that keeps me playing after the Content is burned through it is the hunt for new and better Items INGAME, never take that away from me!).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 99
07-11-2010, 02:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dstahl View Post
I could easily see STO going into a hybrid model similar to what Lotro is doing. In that model, subscriptions stay as is - but you allow people to play for free but heavily limit what they can do - which in essence creates a robust way to demo the game and then if you want to keep playing, you either pay for every little thing you are interested in, or you subscribe and don't have to worry about it.

Turbine seems to have some interesting plans and looking at how DDO has turned around, its worth taking note.
If it brings in the bacon and helps keep STO vibrant then I got no problem with it. I just worry about how it would be perceived by people. I still think a major change this early after launch would have negative consequences.

Btw, thank you for the extra communication this weekend. I've enjoyed your updates. I know you said you'll talk to us more than Craig but please don't burn yourself out!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 100
07-11-2010, 03:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dstahl View Post
having a mechanism like the C-Store gets us bigger budgets and more manpower to make more stuff faster.
but that is only the case as long C-Store buyers make you more money then sub paying players leaving because of all the C-Store stuff..

TBH if I knew how much stuff you will put into the C-Store while the game itself has very limited content I wouldnt give you the money at start for the lifetime as a startup.

If I would have to pay monthly now I would have stopped after the second month and would checkback for season 2.0...

All others in my fleet are gone. Most of them because of missing endgame content and too much C-Store stuff while the free game updates slowed down more and more after the first month. Cryptic wanted to grab extra money for emotes costumes and ship models allready even tho the available customization choices for free ingame are very limited.
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