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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
07-14-2010, 03:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleTerribleRomulan
Eh...The species the klingons could use I feel are fine for the moment. Of course you may make the arguement for the oddball joining starfleet from the klingon pool of species, and vice versa.

I feel that the KDF should and ought to maintain its current species list, and should get access to new species...IF....they are not at war with them. For example...I have seen people attempt to create other aliens that look like cardassians. If we aren't at war with them, then down the road, they should be available to us.

As for the fed side...There is already enough eye candy to keep you occupied. Let us klingons have what little (if any at this point) unique facotrs we have left. You know what fed whining gets...more ships and content; what's next? Taking and adding klingon species and content to the fed side?

Klingon whining (as it has been called) has gotten us one frakking lousy carrier, and a somewhat fix to the clipping issues in the game.....

really....
Race != nationality and allegiance - thinking otherwise leads to terrible things that I don't think need to be pointed out directly. There will be people who disagree with the government of their homeland, or are from a colony that ended up changing hands, or are simply immigrants. I would like the ability to make characters who reflect that - and the C-store is good for that because a cost keeps them from proliferating too much.

The unique 'eye candy' factors the Klingons have do nothing to improve the KDF gameplay. Selling them and earmarking the proceeds to shift development time over to the KDF just might. I'm not asking for cloaks or Klingon ships in Starfleet, never have, and never will*, though I have repeatedly suggested that there should be more KDF ship options including the ships of their satellite states. Individual people of a species (and their fashion choices**), on the other hand, are absolutely not logical to completely restrict to one side and I think it sends a somewhat non-Trek message to do so.

*I have, in fact, referred to Starfleet getting cloaks as 'fail'.
**For off-duty wear, I really don't think there should be any species limitation anyway.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
07-14-2010, 03:48 PM
Leave the races and stuff as they are now. Fed has it's own unique races, KDF it's own. If anything the KDF should get a few C-Store races now like the Kzinti and stuff. But Orions in Fed side? That's a VERY big nono for me and it isn't the clothing that bugs me for that, just the idea of having yet another part that is unique to the KDF stripped away.

I have MirrorU uniforms for my Fed toons but I hardly ever play them. I find the normal uniforms bland and boring so don't call me a hypocrit here. Both factions need to be balanced on content, not one being stripped of it and passed on to the other...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
07-14-2010, 04:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by squidheadjax View Post
Race != nationality and allegiance - thinking otherwise leads to terrible things that I don't think need to be pointed out directly. There will be people who disagree with the government of their homeland, or are from a colony that ended up changing hands, or are simply immigrants. I would like the ability to make characters who reflect that - and the C-store is good for that because a cost keeps them from proliferating too much.

The unique 'eye candy' factors the Klingons have do nothing to improve the KDF gameplay. Selling them and earmarking the proceeds to shift development time over to the KDF just might. I'm not asking for cloaks or Klingon ships in Starfleet, never have, and never will*, though I have repeatedly suggested that there should be more KDF ship options including the ships of their satellite states. Individual people of a species (and their fashion choices**), on the other hand, are absolutely not logical to completely restrict to one side and I think it sends a somewhat non-Trek message to do so.

*I have, in fact, referred to Starfleet getting cloaks as 'fail'.
**For off-duty wear, I really don't think there should be any species limitation anyway.
As far as it goes for canon, there are some things that should just be left alone. Keep what we have on our side and keep what you have on your side. If you want to make a rogue, then use the alien tab and pick the race's traits you want. Im not saying not to allow all species into the federation, but just to limit some completely...you know...races that will leave people scratching their heads asking what that was about. Agree or not, I don't care..I am entitled to my opinion.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
07-14-2010, 06:36 PM
squidheadjax,

I am mostly neutral on this proposal, leaning towards being against it. I understand that people play exiled Orions and such on the Federation side, but I believe the alien generator is already enough for that. I suppose the uniqueness of the new outfits being released for these races being available KDF-side only isn't going to be enough to draw in many players to the faction, but it's not something I'd so easily dismiss. If anything, this proposal proves the draw the outfits do have.

The fact of the matter is... KDF population is so low because we don't receive as much content as the Federation does. In my opinion, allowing these races and their unique costumes to be purchasable for Federation characters would further undermine the KDF and strip away a few reasons to play the Klingon side -- already these is little sentiment enough.

What I'm trying to get at is this; if the game has really come down to being run by the "bean counters" in the office -- just to stay afloat and operational, this game is already doomed. Not enough people, as you suggest, play the KDF side to warrant resources being sunk into fleshing out the experience. It's a slippery slope; cut back more development time for Klingons and less people will play them, and in turn, more development gets shaved away. I seriously hope this is not the case, and I hope the developers goals are not being overly influenced by financial decisions.

If the KDF had as much content as the Federation, I do not believe there'd be such a stark division of population. But because the developers will not take the time to truly get the Klingons up the speed, this will remain an issue for a very long time.

Why do we need a fundraiser for the KDF? Perhaps the true heart of the situation lies in answering that question, not in this proposal.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
07-14-2010, 08:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KillingMeSoftly
Why do we need a fundraiser for the KDF? Perhaps the true heart of the situation lies in answering that question, not in this proposal.
It's the same catch-22 you describe. Not enough work was put into the KDF to get people, but now there aren't enough KDF players to justify investment. I expect that the artist time put into these assets will be seen as not getting enough return and that will be the end of it. I'm proposing a means of increasing the return on the existing work to fund enough additional work to get the KDF 'over the hump' and to the point where the KDF will draw enough player-hours that the devs can say "see, this is keeping people subscribing" and get it somewhat self-sustaining.

Also, the alien generator isn't sufficient to make exile/rebel Gorn or Nausicaans. I'm not sure about Letheans because I haven't bothered trying.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
07-14-2010, 09:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by squidheadjax View Post
It's the same catch-22 you describe. Not enough work was put into the KDF to get people, but now there aren't enough KDF players to justify investment. I expect that the artist time put into these assets will be seen as not getting enough return and that will be the end of it. I'm proposing a means of increasing the return on the existing work to fund enough additional work to get the KDF 'over the hump' and to the point where the KDF will draw enough player-hours that the devs can say "see, this is keeping people subscribing" and get it somewhat self-sustaining.

Also, the alien generator isn't sufficient to make exile/rebel Gorn or Nausicaans. I'm not sure about Letheans because I haven't bothered trying.
Thanks for the heads up about Gorn/Nausicaans. I hadn't ever tried to make those as an Alien species.

I have been wanting a Klingon focused patch for a while now; one that would truly flesh out the Empire. The problem with this is many; for one, there are so many Federation players who don't have a Klingon and have little interest in seeing the other half the game being brought up to spec -- they would have a right to complain if there's a patch with little Federation content... simply on the grounds that STO, as a whole, really needs to be fleshed out more. In the end, I think a Klingon focused patch would do amazing things for the game, but in the short-term I imagine it would be a bit damaging. I'd hope that's not truly the case and people could understand, but I seriously doubt it.

Season 2 has been disappointing for me on the Klingon side. The new missions are nice, but there's little of anything else, while Federation gets many wonderful things we've been asking for. So many Klingon players have been waiting for Season 2, and perhaps some of us have had too high hopes for what it would bring us, but to be honest... what we've gotten for all our waiting is underwhelming. Before risking turning my post into Klingon gameplay complaints, I'll switch gears.

I like the idea of a KDF fundraiser, but somehow I don't think those resources earned would go towards creating Klingon exclusive content. Call me a pessimist, but it seems Cryptic is so hurting for money they'd use a good portion on other things. Speculation aside, I also don't think selling the Klingon races to the Federation would generate enough revenue to create a decent amount of KDF content; perhaps the Orions would sell well for their sex factor and skimpy attire, but I don't think there'd be many Nausicaans or Gorn or Letheans; I don't see many of them on the KDF side to begin win -- I see mostly Klingons and Aliens... and I don't see many Klingons Federation side, even though you don't really need to purchase the race to make one.

Perhaps there could be a wide sale on most items in the Cryptic store for a week, and that cash earned could go exclusively to produce KDF-only content. That's something I would back; it would give me a chance to purchase some items I've had my eyes on but are too expensive for my tastes.

I believe Cryptic has painted themselves into a corner with how they've treated the issue with Klingons, and I don't think there's going to be an easy way out.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
07-15-2010, 08:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by squidheadjax View Post
So I'm thinking... the new customization options for Orions, and Nausicaans... okay basically Orions are cool, but the KDF gameplay is still grueling and boring for me.

There is a population that has been using the Alien generator to play exiled Orions (and not just females!) in Starfleet since the beginning and I know would jump at buying them in the C-store (with their traditional garb as off-duty uniforms). I also know people who would like to play Gorn resisting the conquest of their homeworld by joining Starfleet. And I'm sure there would be someone out there who'd buy a Nausicaan, maybe. And the core species of the Klingon Empire was sold since the beginning.

Likewise, I've seen people (ok one person) play a human working for the KDF through the Alien generator, and we have Joined Trill on the KDF side already due to demand.

I think that putting all species cross-faction in the C-store would a)require almost no work since all the species art has been done already and b)actually sell well.

Plus, I want to make a Starfleet Gorn resistance fighter and re-make my Starfleet Orion as a proper one. So that's two purchases there.

In summary, I'm proposing that Cryptic put up every factional species in the game in a C-store version for the other factions exactly like Starfleet Klingons are now and include all species-linked costume options as off-duty wear for them.

Now, I know some people will come in and say that this will further screw over the KDF by removing the uniqueness from their species. Is the new art really going to accomplish much of a draw, though? Honestly I'm expecting that Cryptic will see Klingon player numbers barely budge after Season 2 and then there will be lots of pressure from the bean-counters to just cut losses and abandon investing in them. What I'm proposing is, basically, a way to directly make more money off what has been invested so far in some of the KDF-side art assets so there's more solid encouragement to actually keep going.

I'm going to suggest that Cryptic go further and earmark the CP income from the KDF species sold cross-faction to support more budgeted dev time for the KDF.
Have a little fundraiser out of it!

I support this. If Romulans are ever added I would love to make a Fed (pro reunification) one.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
07-15-2010, 08:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KillingMeSoftly
Thanks for the heads up about Gorn/Nausicaans. I hadn't ever tried to make those as an Alien species.

I have been wanting a Klingon focused patch for a while now; one that would truly flesh out the Empire. The problem with this is many; for one, there are so many Federation players who don't have a Klingon and have little interest in seeing the other half the game being brought up to spec -- they would have a right to complain if there's a patch with little Federation content... simply on the grounds that STO, as a whole, really needs to be fleshed out more. In the end, I think a Klingon focused patch would do amazing things for the game, but in the short-term I imagine it would be a bit damaging. I'd hope that's not truly the case and people could understand, but I seriously doubt it.

Season 2 has been disappointing for me on the Klingon side. The new missions are nice, but there's little of anything else, while Federation gets many wonderful things we've been asking for. So many Klingon players have been waiting for Season 2, and perhaps some of us have had too high hopes for what it would bring us, but to be honest... what we've gotten for all our waiting is underwhelming. Before risking turning my post into Klingon gameplay complaints, I'll switch gears.

I like the idea of a KDF fundraiser, but somehow I don't think those resources earned would go towards creating Klingon exclusive content. Call me a pessimist, but it seems Cryptic is so hurting for money they'd use a good portion on other things. Speculation aside, I also don't think selling the Klingon races to the Federation would generate enough revenue to create a decent amount of KDF content; perhaps the Orions would sell well for their sex factor and skimpy attire, but I don't think there'd be many Nausicaans or Gorn or Letheans; I don't see many of them on the KDF side to begin win -- I see mostly Klingons and Aliens... and I don't see many Klingons Federation side, even though you don't really need to purchase the race to make one.

Perhaps there could be a wide sale on most items in the Cryptic store for a week, and that cash earned could go exclusively to produce KDF-only content. That's something I would back; it would give me a chance to purchase some items I've had my eyes on but are too expensive for my tastes.

I believe Cryptic has painted themselves into a corner with how they've treated the issue with Klingons, and I don't think there's going to be an easy way out.
Only real way for them out of the klingon mess is actually making the klingon faction and giving the whole game the war we supposed to have but since this game was actually marketed with having 2 sides there shouldent be a need to push for a fundraiser for klingon content it should allready be there in their budget.
So i am greatful for the suggestion about a fundraiser for klingon content but i am angry it has come to this...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
07-15-2010, 08:56 AM
I fully support this idea. Pre-launch I intended to have a Gorn first officer. It was a big letdown when I learned they'd be Klingon only.
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