Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
07-15-2010, 10:44 PM
I wish to directly address one snippet of your post, Mr. Stahl, that I feel is where a great breach occurs between your assumptions, and our expectations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dstahl View Post
You don't need to purchase C-Store items to reach max level or enjoy the game. The items in the C-Store are alternate costumes, ship designs, or services that you've asked for, and we added time on our schedules to deliver.
This game is marketed as Star Trek Online. In order for many of to, as you put it, 'enjoy the game', we need the kind of canon content available that continually seems to be introduced behind exclusivity deals or as C-Store content. In short, you are quite wrong, and there are many of us who can't enjoy playing this game without having to spend additional money to obtain the actual Star Trek content we're familiar with. I honestly did not expect when I paid out over $200 for a Lifetime subscribtion, that I would have to continually and regularly spend not-so-inconsiderable sums just to aquire actual Star Trek content in this game.

I applaud that you say you feel such content should also be able to be unlocked without further cash charges. However, this is something we've heard (and asked for) since launch. But there's still no firm or solid commitment to this model, or details of implementation. Just comments about 'wanting to', while more and more of this content gets C-Store release.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
07-15-2010, 10:50 PM
Edosians for 3000 c alex !
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
07-15-2010, 10:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShinRa_Actual View Post
I wish to directly address one snippet of your post, Mr. Stahl, that I feel is where a great breach occurs between your assumptions, and our expectations.



This game is marketed as Star Trek Online. In order for many of to, as you put it, 'enjoy the game', we need the kind of canon content available that continually seems to be introduced behind exclusivity deals or as C-Store content. In short, you are quite wrong, and there are many of us who can't enjoy playing this game without having to spend additional money to obtain the actual Star Trek content we're familiar with. I honestly did not expect when I paid out over $200 for a Lifetime subscribtion, that I would have to continually and regularly spend not-so-inconsiderable sums just to aquire actual Star Trek content in this game.

I applaud that you say you feel such content should also be able to be unlocked without further cash charges. However, this is something we've heard (and asked for) since launch. But there's still no firm or solid commitment to this model, or details of implementation. Just comments about 'wanting to', while more and more of this content gets C-Store release.
I have to agree with this. the one ship I wanted to fly was the Excelsior. it's Iconic, it's canon, and I expected it to be in the game at launch. but it was not and so I accepted that it mite not make it in. then the ship poll had it on the list, and it won. I was excited because I thought that is was going to be added in normal game play. now we know that is going to be added to the game via the C-store, and to be honest I will most likely buy it because it is my favorite ship, even if I don't agree on it, but that is one thing I really wanted to fly in this game.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
07-15-2010, 10:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dstahl View Post
Does this mean that we should put your favorite ship in the game in the C-Store as the only way to get it? I personally don't believe so. I believe that we need to do a better job at offering alternative ways to get items in game. That doesn't mean that every C-Store item should have a way to unlock it in game - but it means that most should from my perspective.

That is something I'm working on directly and want to see addressed.
That's all a lot of us are asking for. No need to have in-game unlocks for purely cosmetic items (ship skins, alternate races, uniforms, etc.). Keep those solely in the store. But for the unique non-cosmetic items, for example the only Federation cruiser with a cloaking device, yes, just give us alternate in-game ways to get one. That would take a LOT of heat off off the C Store bashing.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
07-15-2010, 11:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zodi-emish
then please answer us this, and put a lot of our fears to rest.

How is the nebula, and excelsior going to be handed?
are they going to be just skins or are they going to be full ships?
I'd like an answer on this too. If they are just skins then I don't think the C-Store is appropriate unless they are VERY cheap. If they are ships with unique functionality or something a tad different like the TOS Connie then you guys deserve payment, imo.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
07-15-2010, 11:17 PM
I have no problem with C-store items as long as they are cheap. Cheap is < 5 bucks. The most anything should cost is 10 bucks in my eyes. The game at launch cost 50 bucks. No item should cost more then 20% of the game.

It would be awesome if Cryptic compinsated every sub 40C points a month. That's 50 cents for a 15 buck sub. Seems like a decent rebate to me. And for lifers maybe give them 1/2 that at 20C points a month. FYI I am a lifer.

That would take the bite out of buying cstore items when they are released and if you are patient enough you could score the cstore item for free if are willing to wait and save your points.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
07-15-2010, 11:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zodi-emish
then please answer us this, and put a lot of our fears to rest.

How is the nebula, and excelsior going to be handed?
are they going to be just skins or are they going to be full ships?
if they are full ships can we expect to pay around the cost of the TOS Constitution at 10 dollars, around the galaxy-x price range at 25 dollars, or some where in the middle 15 to 20?
will these ships have effects that you can not get in the game?
how is your working coming for an alternate method to the C-store points?

please answer these to the best you can. it will help put out some if not all of the fires.
The details haven't been completely ironed out yet - so I don't have all of what you're asking for but here's what I can share.

The models for the ship are nearly complete - it is just a matter of adding the powers/class configs to the ships and then getting approval.

These ships are currently slated to have slightly different configurations with at least 1 intersting unique ability (Nebula will have some sort of awacs like power and excelsior gets transwarp to any sector ability)

We are heavily considering a suggestion posted earlier where acquiring these ships unlocks both a T3 AND T5 version. So you can fly it at Captain and then a Refit version at Admiral. (love this idea btw)

And as mentioned earlier - I'm also arguing for a way to get alternative ways to unlock these types of things in game so that there are other ways to get the ship rather than via the C-Store.

Price is completely up in the air and set by the C-Store team.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
07-15-2010, 11:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dstahl View Post
The details haven't been completely ironed out yet - so I don't have all of what you're asking for but here's what I can share.

The models for the ship are nearly complete - it is just a matter of adding the powers/class configs to the ships and then getting approval.

These ships are currently slated to have slightly different configurations with at least 1 intersting unique ability (Nebula will have some sort of awacs like power and excelsior gets transwarp to any sector ability)

We are heavily considering a suggestion posted earlier where acquiring these ships unlocks both a T3 AND T5 version. So you can fly it at Captain and then a Refit version at Admiral. (love this idea btw)

And as mentioned earlier - I'm also arguing for a way to get alternative ways to unlock these types of things in game so that there are other ways to get the ship rather than via the C-Store.

Price is completely up in the air and set by the C-Store team.

Awesome that is what I was looking for. Thank you...

( oh I like this: excelsior gets transwarp to any sector ability )
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
07-15-2010, 11:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShinRa_Actual View Post
This game is marketed as Star Trek Online. In order for many of to, as you put it, 'enjoy the game', we need the kind of canon content available that continually seems to be introduced behind exclusivity deals or as C-Store content. In short, you are quite wrong, and there are many of us who can't enjoy playing this game without having to spend additional money to obtain the actual Star Trek content we're familiar with. I honestly did not expect when I paid out over $200 for a Lifetime subscribtion, that I would have to continually and regularly spend not-so-inconsiderable sums just to aquire actual Star Trek content in this game.

I applaud that you say you feel such content should also be able to be unlocked without further cash charges. However, this is something we've heard (and asked for) since launch. But there's still no firm or solid commitment to this model, or details of implementation. Just comments about 'wanting to', while more and more of this content gets C-Store release.
I call B.S. You don't NEED anything on the C Store to play the game. Some of the things are nice to have, but that's it. You're saying that you CAN'T have fun without what, the Mirror Universe uniforms? Or is it the Galaxy X? Total and utter nonsense. None of those things were originally offered as part of the game, you had no expectations of them going in.

Absolutely ridiculous.

I had to rewrite this several times, I was so ticked when I read your post. Absolute bull.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
07-15-2010, 11:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dstahl View Post
Superchum - you may have saved me a few paragraphs with your insight.

Many if not all of the C-Store items are requests that fans on these vary forums have asked for at one point or another to be in the C-Store. Sometimes when something isn't on our immediate schedule, we can still work out ways to get it done by making it a C-Store item because it generates additional revenue for additional resources. Plain and simple.

Does this mean that we should put your favorite ship in the game in the C-Store as the only way to get it? I personally don't believe so. I believe that we need to do a better job at offering alternative ways to get items in game. That doesn't mean that every C-Store item should have a way to unlock it in game - but it means that most should from my perspective.

That is something I'm working on directly and want to see addressed.

At the end of the day after all the spreadsheets with numbers on them go through the accounting department - everything boils down to this (imho):

The C-Store adds additional funds to support the game and deliver more content and features faster.

We only spend a fraction of our development time on C-Store items and the bulk of it making content updates such as Season 1 and Season 2. We are only 6 months into the game and we've already delivered a heap of new features with more on the way.

You don't need to purchase C-Store items to reach max level or enjoy the game. The items in the C-Store are alternate costumes, ship designs, or services that you've asked for, and we added time on our schedules to deliver.

Does this mean everyone should love the C-Store and go out and purchase everything they can? YES! (ok .. just kidding).. Of course NOT!

You should only spend money in the C-Store for things that add to your enjoyment of the game. There is nothing in there that is required for you to play STO. If there are things in the store that you want to enjoy but can't because you don't want to spend the money on it - then I can understand and we'll work on finding alternative ways to get these items unlockable.

In the end - there will still be a C-Store and people will continue to ask us to put stuff in there. We will continue to pay attention and deliver what you want and avoid the things you don't (like emote packs... bah)

Now - back to the regularly scheduled discussion...
First of all, I <3 you for bringing all this up. Granted, I'm still relatively miffed that something like emote packs made it on the c-store, those things should be free content (imho).

Secondly, I'm glad to see you're working hard to find the means for us to earn some of these items in-game rather than just the c-store.

The one thing that is still missing, however, since launch, is a toggle to turn off the annoying, persistent tips that veteran players are getting really tired of seeing. Thats the #1 thing on my wishlist and its all I'm asking for... Well, and maybe a more iconic design for Earth dock.

I have the utmost faith in you that you'll turn the game around and really make it a spectacular marvel in the MMO community. Keep up the good work. ^_^

Sov42

P.S. I totally deserve diplomacy XP for this.
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