Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
07-22-2010, 01:37 PM
what about fleet begging

is fleet begging better than fleet robbing?


i would rather have a fleet robber then a fleet begger i think
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
07-22-2010, 02:02 PM
IIRC, calling out people for such behavior is against the forum rules. (Since it's hard to prove that behavior was actually wrong, it's basically just throwing around accusations in the end.)

I guess the possiblities how to configure fleet tabs might need better advertisement. or not, and let people just experience the first fleet robber and learn from it. You can do only so much with the UI.

Just be careful with fleet invities. I occassionally get fleet invites out of the blue for my Science Captain during PvP matches., People didn'T ask me before, they just asked me to join. Maybe they think the are doing me a favor or not, but if you don't talk to me first, I will decline. But imagine if I was a mean person - I could just join your fleet and try to see what I can steal before I leave or get kicked out.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
07-22-2010, 02:48 PM
Hey gang!

First, I want to address why we don't allow people to post the names of individuals who may, or may not have engaged in activities like this. It's for the "May not have" reasons.

Let's just say that I have an in-game argument over something with Mumrah. If I get really upset, and can't bring him around to my way of thinking, and I'm particularly vengeful, I could post saying that Mumrah has done something truly horrible to me! That will teach him! Right?

But Mumrah hasn't done anything horrible to me in all actuality, we just had a disagreement over people storing too many Tribbles in the bank. Mumrah suffers a hit to his reputation. I suffer a hit to my reputation, and in the end, no one really wins. It's the kind of drama that tears apart fleets and larger communities every day.

How do we verify those claims to protect people like Mumrah from people like me? Is the OCR guy supposed to spend all his time investigating these issues instead of reading the forums and passing along your valuable feedback? Maybe we should have a GM handle that instead of doing tickets to get you all the support you need as soon as possible? Or we could just say no bad mouthing other players on the forums. This kind of action could easily fall under flaming and trolling, Harassing other Members, or even defamatory material, all of which is against the forum guidelines already in place.

We all know fleet leaders talk to one another. People who take these actions will become known in the community without having there name plastered all over the forums. It's not needed.

Further, we have given you, as Fleet Leaders, the tools you need to be able to protect your banks from individuals who engage in this kind of activity. We gave you those for a reason. We want you to use them!

Thanks,

Stormshade
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
07-22-2010, 03:02 PM
In the fleet that I am apart of, only a few high ranking officers have access to remove items from the bank. I, being one that does not have access to remove said items, prefer it that way. Because if I spot something I like/want, I still have the opportunity to petition/ask/pay to get it so with it getting ninja swiped from me.

Why, oh why wouldn't all fleet commanders adopt these security protocols?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
07-22-2010, 03:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by StormShade
Hey gang!

First, I want to address why we don't allow people to post the names of individuals who may, or may not have engaged in activities like this. It's for the "May not have" reasons.

Let's just say that I have an in-game argument over something with Mumrah. If I get really upset, and can't bring him around to my way of thinking, and I'm particularly vengeful, I could post saying that Mumrah has done something truly horrible to me! That will teach him! Right?

But Mumrah hasn't done anything horrible to me in all actuality, we just had a disagreement over people storing too many Tribbles in the bank. Mumrah suffers a hit to his reputation. I suffer a hit to my reputation, and in the end, no one really wins. It's the kind of drama that tears apart fleets and larger communities every day.

How do we verify those claims to protect people like Mumrah from people like me? Is the OCR guy supposed to spend all his time investigating these issues instead of reading the forums and passing along your valuable feedback? Maybe we should have a GM handle that instead of doing tickets to get you all the support you need as soon as possible? Or we could just say no bad mouthing other players on the forums. This kind of action could easily fall under flaming and trolling, Harassing other Members, or even defamatory material, all of which is against the forum guidelines already in place.

We all know fleet leaders talk to one another. People who take these actions will become known in the community without having there name plastered all over the forums. It's not needed.

Further, we have given you, as Fleet Leaders, the tools you need to be able to protect your banks from individuals who engage in this kind of activity. We gave you those for a reason. We want you to use them!

Thanks,

Stormshade

I find this policy is a bit odd. As it applies both in game and on the forums. It makes sense only if cryptic takes action in such cases otherwise the guidelines protect people oh commit such acts.

Give you a hypothetical. Say someone works their way up in a fleet then after getting a high enough rank being an upstanding member ect ect. They decide to rob the bank and kick all the members they have access rights to kick. This combined shows an intent to harm other players activity's. Say now that the same person then creates a Mock fleet with a nearly identical name to the one they just attacked in such a way. (Again hypothetical here)

The cryptic policy in such a case is to take no action when clearly the player in question is out to cause harm. And the ability of the players to respond in anyway is highly restricted due to policy's like this. Players can not issue warnings to the public ect even though cryptic has logs to backup these actions.

Say that person continues to harass the fleet they attacked in this manner. Again cryptic policy currently allows this and restricts the fleet in question from taking action to protect themselves.

I understand the logic in policy's to protect innocent players from unwarranted attacks. But I would argue this only works if cryptic draws some sort of line on behavior in the sand and says that's enough you have clearly shown your only intention is to cause trouble for other players. Otherwise you just end up encouraging such behavior protecting it and punishing those who are already the victim of such people by preventing them from having any options.

Just my opinion and suggestion policy needs to be a bit more flexible than it currently seems to be.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
07-22-2010, 04:02 PM
When players steal from each other in EVE, it's a selling point and highlighted as an amazing part of the game.

When players steal from each other in STO, there are complaints.

There are options to protect your banks - use them.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
07-22-2010, 04:29 PM
that was what i was thinking

a game dynamic

this bit

Give you a hypothetical. Say someone works their way up in a fleet then after getting a high enough rank being an upstanding member ect ect. They decide to rob the bank and kick all the members they have access rights to kick. This combined shows an intent to harm other players activity's. Say now that the same person then creates a Mock fleet with a nearly identical name to the one they just attacked in such a way

is like a Khan or something.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
07-22-2010, 04:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darren_Kitlor
When players steal from each other in EVE, it's a selling point and highlighted as an amazing part of the game.

When players steal from each other in STO, there are complaints.

There are options to protect your banks - use them.

When players steal from each-other in EVE there is often some pod killing involved shortly after heh.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
07-22-2010, 04:41 PM
There's no policy against someone starting a blacklist thread on their own public forums and having a link to it in their signature though...

So go, start a blacklist thread in a public forum and let people put people's @names and their descriptions there, then link it in your sig..
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
07-22-2010, 04:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Powerhelm View Post
There's no policy against someone starting a blacklist thread on their own public forums and having a link to it in their signature though...

So go, start a blacklist thread in a public forum and let people put people's @names and their descriptions there, then link it in your sig..
While very true that we can't control what you put up in your own websites and forums, again, I want to stress that this kind of thing has a lasting effect on the people's whose names are put on that list, and if it's not verified, and double checked somehow, it's entirely possible that someone whose name doesn't belong on that list could end up there.

That's good for no one.

Thanks,

Stormshade
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