Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 191
07-22-2010, 06:54 PM
Originally Posted by Syrinx
Just this bit.
We keep revisiting this, and as far as it goes, I understand your point of view, but only in so far as buying the game.
We installed our game and logged on, and I'd doubt many people had many problems in the first hours of play. By Commander you maybe have a few raised eyebrows at the fact that the exploration of the galaxy just isn't that at all, and it's really just a handheld, regurgitated mission with a different backdrop.
You may also (like me) excuse the predictable missions of "kill 5 groups of Romulan ships" because when you justify it in your own mind you think, well is that so different really to "go get me 10 boar skins"?

Remember, this is all still in the threshold of initial purchase.

So remember, this is not a single player game. It's not fire and forget, where if you don't like your purchase you just uninstall and call it lesson learned.
If you took your time in STO you may be at 29 days now. So new month's subscription hits, and you're like "ok no problem, still a way to go and we've had the STF videos and the posts by Cryptic saying what's coming and even though I'm a little bored right now, and don't bother to even read my quest text anymore, it's going to get better."
You get pretty far on in Captain as a tac (for ex.) and think "hey, it could be my class that's a bit bland. I'll try science."
Go make a science officer, pretty well since you've learned a bit on your first go. Start up, and it's the same. Exactly the same. From mission 1, you don't read the quest text sionce there's no need. No divergence in paths from 1 class to the next, not class specific missions, and you're still killing 5 of these or scanning 5 of those.

Sigh...ok, I'm a fed. Klingons are the pvp faction, I'll go try that and get some excitement going.
Nope. No one is playing. If the needed number of Klingons is up on the queue, the feds aren't having any. If enough of your compadres are in the queue, the Klings aren't willing. What's going on here?
Ohhhhh, we have fed vs fed now. Those that couldn't handle the Kling cloaks have decided it's better to fight each other.
Nope. Feds got tired of just fighting each other, but in the interim, Klings got tired of waitjn g for feds and all left the game. This sux.

Nevermind, you say. Cryptic are bringing a load of stuff really soon; just look at the engineer reports. New ships, FDC, interiors, all that good stuff.

Tribble testing arrives on the new stuff.
Now I am one who likes to be able to bug report to make sure things are ok, but at the same time, on a game with very little to do, I don't want to use it all up before it even gets to live. So I have a quick look at interiors, do a first contact mission and leave it at that. TBH that's pretty much the extent of the new content anyway.
Oh, I went and checked out my new clothing options on my klingon. Nice! Now I can stand around with still nothing to do. Oh I forgot, the new Klingon episodes. Well, it takes like 2 weeks to level a fed character so how long will the Kling missions last me?

On top of that, the new ships that are coming; well they're going to the C store, not the game. Despite what you think, they are content. They're cosmetic content, but content nonetheless.

So what do we have to show now, considering money has been spent beyond the original purchase of the game? Nothing.
Ok we have interiors. I can now dance in engineering, sickbay, corridors or the lab, rather than just on my bridge.
With all the new additions, if I start a new character I could still level it in just over a week. I can go the FDC route if I want, and get a shiny new uniform, but I won't use that uniform, since to do so, I need a new slot. You can guess where that is.

As far as consequences for your own purchases go, I totally agree. Man cannot live on promises alone, and as a result, I have 1 day remaining to talk to you here.

edit- one other thing, people stick with and endure because of the IP. A Star Trek MMO/ What a dream! Many will keep pumping that cash every month just on the off chance it does realise its potential. As sad as I am to realise it isn't going to happen, I finally faced facts.
Yeah. I get your point. It's the whole thing about throwing good money after the bad. Your investment doesn't live up to expectations so you invest more money in it hoping that it will turn out right in the end. It's a well documented phenomenon. Knowing where your tolerance level is, your level of risk, when to cut your losses, is the key here.

I'll be sorry to see you go. Thanks for the debate. Perhaps one day STO will blossom and you'll be back. Until then,
Live long and prosper.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 192
07-22-2010, 07:10 PM
Originally Posted by Venatici
you right, i agree with you i should have spelled Doughnut properly.... it was early in the morning (PST) and was working night shift... my fault

more seriously there s no point to keep beating this dead horse... the C store items are just drops into a cup full of unsatisfied players, the C Store is not the cause of the problem.... the problem is to pay full price for a half finished game and the only option available to make it better is to buy additional stuff. i believe most people want a better game with more content, end game, closer to trek lore, real exploration etc... before having to buy fluffy stuff. So they can have fun playing it

Now looking at the last few month on the forums... Cryptic could have thrown most of the C store items (races, bridges, uniforms etc) as in game unlocks, mission rewards etc, mainly to appease players complaints about the core game weaknesses and asking us to be a bit more patient for more content and game improvements to happen down the road... open minded players would have acknowledged and understood the situation. THIS would have been great customers services as well....Now how many bashing threads would have been created if they did that...??? very little... but they went a different way...and at the end, we all pay the price... they seem to loose customers and there are less players on the server...i guess the RP guys get a real feel of space emptiness nowadays....
Yeah. I know. The problem is the, I will not say unfinished, unsatisfying game. The additional stuff will not make it better though. At best,giving away the C-store items will merely be a stopgap, little shiny baubles to distract from the real issue. Whether or not they do it, the game will still be how it is. They say they're trying to fix it so we wait. We don't require the distractions. If Cryptic were to give them us, it would help pass the time. Great! But if they don't we're not entitled to them, like some people on the forums think we are. The choice to stay and wait or to give up and leave really does not depend on the C-store items, it depends on the game in the entirety.

Say that you're right. There is no C-store team and the whole thing is just a money grab. Money that will go to the developers? Money that can likely be used to improve the game? So why, while complaining about the lack of core features do you demand that they cut their sources of income and thus potential development funds? You don't want to spend the money and that's all well and good but someone else might and that will go towards a better game for everyone, yourself included. Instead you would rather get something for nothing, and deny the developers additional funding sources, thereby denying improvements to the game, requiring the addition of more features, which should be free, not generating more income. Need I go on?

They may do it if they want to. There's the option there and if they can do it, so much the better. If they don't, that's still their choice. No one else can make it for them, so if they lose customers by it, that's their decision.

As to how many bashing threads there would be? I suspect lots. It's happened so many times on these forums, so many brushfires over the smallest little things that start from nowhere and disappear into oblivion just as quickly.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 193
07-24-2010, 11:01 PM
It's time we spoke out against the Devs and Cryptic
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 194
07-25-2010, 07:33 AM
Originally Posted by Themagikz View Post
It's time we spoke out against the Devs and Cryptic
we have been.

and for the most part it's been constructive on our part.... we just aren't that important it seems...

and, yet here we are...... hundreds of dollars invested...... with a very bad taste in our mouths.... and here comes another spoonful of "it" again....

ooo look !!! another $25 ship in the c-store Yay !

Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 195
07-25-2010, 09:49 PM
Clearly im just so "spot on" with my argument the devs are afraid to respond >.<
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 196
07-26-2010, 11:16 AM
Services: (Skipped - these tend to be pay for services in other games as well, and it is difficult to view any argument against them as valid, save perhaps additional character slots)

Bridge Packs: All completely fluff/cosmetic

Ship "costumes": All completely fluff/cosmetic

Uniforms: All completely fluff/cosmetic. Many if not all were at one point exclusives, so buying them here is in a way cheaper than, say, buying a box with a licence and a bonus of these items. (particularly the Mirror Universe uniforms which had been only available with a $300 (?) limited time lifetime subscription to CO)

Misc pre-order bonus items - I'm looking at these as being justifiable, simply because they also were only available with specific pre-orders. They do need to add some of the newer ones (like the phaser mine thing), but otherwise the C-Store is actually the cheaper option to getting these instead of having blown $40 on an additional pre-order box, and/or blowing $$$ on a questionable eBay of one. THIS INCLUDES THE TOS CONSTITUTION CLASS! Also includes the Borg BOs, the NX registry, Khan and Bloodwine emotes, Targ, tribble, etc.

Galaxy X: There is actually a way to "earn" this ship instead of buying it. Technically this fits the directive to making these items earnable in other ways or only cosmetic, regardless of people's feelings on the matter, it matched the letter of the law, so to speak. $25 isn't too bad when compared to the hundreds spent by friends on their 5 accounts and retail boxes.

Emote packs: all fluff/cosmetic.

All of the above match the directive Cryptic set out - all achievable in game or fluff.

It is worthy of note however, that in CO, all the costumes were also achievable through Accolades! (kill 50,000 of something, get a costume unlock). I am quite insistent that the ship costumes, bridges, and uniforms, become part of an accolade shop at some point in the near future, costing large quantities of accolade points (the equivalent of a top-level accolade). But that's just me.

The following items are the only ones technically in violation of the directive set forth for the C-Store:


That's it.

They aren't fluff (they have in-game impact), they aren't earnable (save joined trill and liberated borg if they ever give that one out), they are on the C-store.

Theo others we can all argue about based on the spirit of things, but that really is the only one that has no other way of earning it and has an impact on the game...

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