Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 221
08-10-2010, 08:58 AM
im on about the ferengi and kilingon available on launch
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 222
08-10-2010, 11:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdman22 View Post
most people wouldnt have had to pay for them at launch as most people got 500 cp free and thats way more than both of em cost!
1) Only a certain few pre-orderer's got the 500 CP

2) They cost 320CP together, so I wouldn't call 500 CP way more than both em

3) Regardless, they don't fit with Cryptic's rationale for the C-Store
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 223
08-11-2010, 02:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cpt.William2 View Post
I would be cool with a major focus on the Klingon side and a minor focus on the UFP side, but not zero DEV attention. But I definitely wouldn't be cool having to wait a whole 6-12 months to make another faction.

I know how you feel, I made a Klingon character at launch and din't start playing him again until a month ago, because well, Klingon side sucks right now.


AS for the C-Store, if it was just visual stuff, I wouldn't have a problem for the most part. But it just isn't, there are too many things with unique in-game effects in the C-Store.

Races with unique traits, ships with unique abilities, unique weapons, etc.

And it doesn't help that one of the main arguments by Cryptic is that they need it "to justify new art and content. Otherwise we would have to wait for them to make content that required it." That is all well and good, but correct me if I'm wrong, Ferengi and Klingon characters were already in missions at launch, so why did they have to charge for them?
What unique weapons are you referring to?

There are only 1 ship with unique abilities - The Galaxy-X (which, again, is a buttugly abomination the would would be better without) - The retrofits you get one for free at VA1, if you want all 3, yes you have to pay
for it.. However you turn it, it *is* availible ingame.. The T1 Connie is a D2D bonus, I think it is cool they can be aquired through, but it would be lamesauce to have them for free, when some people (no, Im not one of them) have bought multiple copies to get multiple sets.

Unique traits? The difference is minor at most.. I doubt anyone can tell the difference between unique traited character A and custom alien B.. The reason to get these unlocks are for the visual - Not the traits.

As for the Fed Ferengi and Klingon - Neither race is one I can see in abundence in Starfleet..

Ferengi is supportive for the Federation, but the average Ferengi is hardly interested in Starfleet.. They are for the vast majority profit hoarders, and there isnt really "profit" in joining Starfleet.

Klingons are at war with the UFP, I doubt more than a very few outcasts or traitors would even consider Starfleet.

I dont see anything wrong with them being CS. (just wish there were fewer Klingon and Ferengi BOs as well)

Come now, how often did Worf (who *severed* ties with the UFP at the beginning of the war) run into another Klingon in Starfleet? How many Starfleet uniformed Ferengi did Nog encounter?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 224
08-11-2010, 02:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdman22 View Post
im on about the ferengi and kilingon available on launch
Ooops, then i said nothing.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 225
08-11-2010, 08:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MelineAaele View Post
What unique weapons are you referring to?

There are only 1 ship with unique abilities - The Galaxy-X (which, again, is a buttugly abomination the would would be better without) - The retrofits you get one for free at VA1, if you want all 3, yes you have to pay
for it.. However you turn it, it *is* availible ingame.. The T1 Connie is a D2D bonus, I think it is cool they can be aquired through, but it would be lamesauce to have them for free, when some people (no, Im not one of them) have bought multiple copies to get multiple sets.
The tier 1 Connie has several Unique abilities-

It is the only Tier 1 Ship w/ 20% More HP

It is the only Tier 1 Ship with 2 Eng Console Slots

It is the only ship with Scalable phasers

Quote:
Originally Posted by MelineAaele View Post
Unique traits? The difference is minor at most.. I doubt anyone can tell the difference between unique traited character A and custom alien B.. The reason to get these unlocks are for the visual - Not the traits.
They have traits like "pig-Headed", "Dumb Luck" and "FEline Instinct" that are unavailable to anyone else, AKA Unique. And some of them are very valuable, a much lower chance of being held in place and shot at is a very good advantage.

If they were just visual, I would be okay with it. Heck, I'm even ok with them putting in those kinds of races (Pakleds or Caitians) because they are rare in Trek. But species that are commonly shown (Ferengi, Klingon, Tellarite) just ticks me off, especially when they don't fit with the (poor) reasoning of the C-Store.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MelineAaele View Post
As for the Fed Ferengi and Klingon - Neither race is one I can see in abundence in Starfleet..

Ferengi is supportive for the Federation, but the average Ferengi is hardly interested in Starfleet.. They are for the vast majority profit hoarders, and there isnt really "profit" in joining Starfleet.

Klingons are at war with the UFP, I doubt more than a very few outcasts or traitors would even consider Starfleet.

I dont see anything wrong with them being CS. (just wish there were fewer Klingon and Ferengi BOs as well)

Come now, how often did Worf (who *severed* ties with the UFP at the beginning of the war) run into another Klingon in Starfleet? How many Starfleet uniformed Ferengi did Nog encounter?
Maybe not in the shows, but they by the end of the shows, there was inferrence that more would come.
Especially the Ferengi, considering all the reforms Rom would make.
Heck, in several alternate timelines, Ferengi/Klingons have been shown in Starfleet.

Even if there are few shown, the "reason" that Cryptic gives for C-Store content doesn't explain them.



And as for the C-Store in general

Either 1) They are hiring more people (which is unlikely, based on their press releases)

2) Subscription pays for :
Content A
Content B
Content C
Content D

Fans want extra content (E)

Content D workers instead work on Content E, which you are then charged for.

So, at the end of the day, you paid for

A,B,C, and D

But only got A,B,&C and are told to pay extra for Content E

OR 3)

You paid for A,B,C,D and so they divert some of the workers to Content E

And A,B,C,D drop in quality
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 226
08-11-2010, 08:40 AM
And as for the C-Store in general

Either 1) They are hiring more people (which is unlikely, based on their press releases)

2) Subscription pays for :
Content A
Content B
Content C
Content D

Fans want extra content (E)

Content D workers instead work on Content E, which you are then charged for.

So, at the end of the day, you paid for

A,B,C, and D

But only got A,B,&C and are told to pay extra for Content E

OR 3)

You paid for A,B,C,D and so they divert some of the workers to Content E

And A,B,C,D drop in quality[/quote]


Agreed. It's completely unnacceptable that fluff and other extras are being produced for a fee, while the glairing bugs and core gameplay issues like the mess that the item database is currently in remain uncorrected. It's like paying for your satalite TV and only recieving half the channels because the bandwidth is needed for other pay to view channels that they offer you for more money. Ridiculous and unjustafiable!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 227
08-11-2010, 11:12 AM
there is a problem with this whole subsection, here ill correct it lol

2) Subscription pays for :
season 1
Content A: non functional, buggs and mission attributes. put into content B hopefully
Content B: still non functional, still missing attributes from Content A. fix content A bugs, push to content C
season 2
Content C: 1/2 content A complete, fix content B, content A still buggy on fix but workable. Content B still not fixed No function to it yet. add cosmetic to gloss over content B missing attributes


Fans wanted what was shown in video, which is Content A: Fans get Content 0.9A and beta B
Fans wanted ships not skins got cosmetic skins with no real function inside ship.


The C store was portraid as an accesory store to add additional features to the game. as content was added in the game per season. Ship skins are additional features. SHips are not additional features but that which we where promissed as per videos and press conference.

here is what i see so far in sto as ships

4 ranks 3 types of ships
1 rank 5 types of ships

so you only have at each rank 3 ships to choose from.
a tactical,
engineering
science

their is no different in the catagories inside the respective feilds. after you reach RA you get to choose 2 additional ships. your choice of having a different ship console. This is based off of cryptics interpeting the ships and not canon. From the videos and promos we are owed ships. id have to say about 5 ships we are owed that are presented in the video and talked about in the press releases. As for content. dude when they actually finish content and functionality in the game let me know.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 228
08-12-2010, 04:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cpt.William2 View Post
The tier 1 Connie has several Unique abilities-

It is the only Tier 1 Ship w/ 20% More HP

It is the only Tier 1 Ship with 2 Eng Console Slots

It is the only ship with Scalable phasers

- It is also a D2D / Preorder (which I forget) so its a perk for buying it at a particular time/place - Like I mentioned, adding the D2D perks (like the Connie, uniforms, auto defense battery etc) to the CS is acceptable imo.


They have traits like "pig-Headed", "Dumb Luck" and "FEline Instinct" that are unavailable to anyone else, AKA Unique. And some of them are very valuable, a much lower chance of being held in place and shot at is a very good advantage.

Well, to be honest Ive never played any of these races, so I dont know how major or minor the traits are - I doubt they are enough to give their players a significant advantage over a "normal" character.


If they were just visual, I would be okay with it. Heck, I'm even ok with them putting in those kinds of races (Pakleds or Caitians) because they are rare in Trek. But species that are commonly shown (Ferengi, Klingon, Tellarite) just ticks me off, especially when they don't fit with the (poor) reasoning of the C-Store.



Maybe not in the shows, but they by the end of the shows, there was inferrence that more would come.
Especially the Ferengi, considering all the reforms Rom would make.
Heck, in several alternate timelines, Ferengi/Klingons have been shown in Starfleet.

Again, to quote one of my favorite actors in the series - Logic dictates that a race to whom honour is essential to existance, would not likely join with another organization at war with their own people.. Hell, even Martok refused to challenge Gowron, even when he knew his orders were given with a personal (and dishonorable) agenda.. I quote again "I swore an oath" Martok was willing to do anything and everything, he was ordered, because honour demanded it.

Remember : Honour is life

As for the Ferengi.. Do you really believe that a race that for hundred of years have cared about nothing but profit, to the point of betraying/assasinating their own familymembers would, in large numbers, join a organization where money have no value, where there is *no* profit whatsoever?


Even if there are few shown, the "reason" that Cryptic gives for C-Store content doesn't explain them.



And as for the C-Store in general

Either 1) They are hiring more people (which is unlikely, based on their press releases)

2) Subscription pays for :
Content A
Content B
Content C
Content D

Fans want extra content (E)

Like Nebulons and such? :p


Content D workers instead work on Content E, which you are then charged for.

So, at the end of the day, you paid for

A,B,C, and D

But only got A,B,&C and are told to pay extra for Content E

No, because Content D is not gone, it is merely delayed


OR 3)

You paid for A,B,C,D and so they divert some of the workers to Content E

And A,B,C,D drop in quality

And A,B,C,D will be improved upon, once Content E is out.

10 characters
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 229
08-12-2010, 06:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MelineAaele View Post
Originally Posted by Cpt.William2
The tier 1 Connie has several Unique abilities-

It is the only Tier 1 Ship w/ 20% More HP

It is the only Tier 1 Ship with 2 Eng Console Slots

It is the only ship with Scalable phasers

- It is also a D2D / Preorder (which I forget) so its a perk for buying it at a particular time/place - Like I mentioned, adding the D2D perks (like the Connie, uniforms, auto defense battery etc) to the CS is acceptable imo.

Which made it quite limited and not everyone could get one. But it required at least a $60 investment, not a measly few bucks.


They have traits like "pig-Headed", "Dumb Luck" and "FEline Instinct" that are unavailable to anyone else, AKA Unique. And some of them are very valuable, a much lower chance of being held in place and shot at is a very good advantage.

Well, to be honest Ive never played any of these races, so I dont know how major or minor the traits are - I doubt they are enough to give their players a significant advantage over a "normal" character.

I have read from many people that have these characters, they have seen much better performance in PvP and elsewhere do to many of these traits.

If they were just visual, I would be okay with it. Heck, I'm even ok with them putting in those kinds of races (Pakleds or Caitians) because they are rare in Trek. But species that are commonly shown (Ferengi, Klingon, Tellarite) just ticks me off, especially when they don't fit with the (poor) reasoning of the C-Store.



Maybe not in the shows, but they by the end of the shows, there was inferrence that more would come.
Especially the Ferengi, considering all the reforms Rom would make.
Heck, in several alternate timelines, Ferengi/Klingons have been shown in Starfleet.

Again, to quote one of my favorite actors in the series - Logic dictates that a race to whom honour is essential to existance, would not likely join with another organization at war with their own people.. Hell, even Martok refused to challenge Gowron, even when he knew his orders were given with a personal (and dishonorable) agenda.. I quote again "I swore an oath" Martok was willing to do anything and everything, he was ordered, because honour demanded it.

Remember : Honour is life


Except that the Klingons in Starfleet may see the Chancellor's actions as dishonorable and unworthy of following. AKA Worf during the Klingon-Federation War. Besides that, How does that legitimize charging for that option?

As for the Ferengi.. Do you really believe that a race that for hundred of years have cared about nothing but profit, to the point of betraying/assasinating their own familymembers would, in large numbers, join a organization where money have no value, where there is *no* profit whatsoever?

Maybe during TNG and most of Early DS9, but considering all the changes to Ferengi civilization by Zek, and the changes by Rom, and the fact that they have been depicted as in Starfleet in Alternate Futures, and the fact that Path to 2409 mentions an increase in Ferengi attending Starfleet, I would say yes. Also, if they were so scarce, why are their so many BO's?

Even if there are few shown, the "reason" that Cryptic gives for C-Store content doesn't explain them.



And as for the C-Store in general

Either 1) They are hiring more people (which is unlikely, based on their press releases)

2) Subscription pays for :
Content A
Content B
Content C
Content D

Fans want extra content (E)

Like Nebulons and such?

Content D workers instead work on Content E, which you are then charged for.

So, at the end of the day, you paid for

A,B,C, and D

But only got A,B,&C and are told to pay extra for Content E

No, because Content D is not gone, it is merely delayed
As in I paid $15 this month, got $10 worth, and was told I'd have to pay $5 for Content E.


OR 3)

You paid for A,B,C,D and so they divert some of the workers to Content E

And A,B,C,D drop in quality

And A,B,C,D will be improved upon, once Content E is out.
Not necessarily. They have shown a remarkable propensity towards releasing garbage content full of bugs, that are never fixed.
I'm in blue
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 230
08-12-2010, 07:25 AM
Originally Posted by MelineAaele View Post
Originally Posted by Cpt.William2
The tier 1 Connie has several Unique abilities-

It is the only Tier 1 Ship w/ 20% More HP

It is the only Tier 1 Ship with 2 Eng Console Slots

It is the only ship with Scalable phasers

- It is also a D2D / Preorder (which I forget) so its a perk for buying it at a particular time/place - Like I mentioned, adding the D2D perks (like the Connie, uniforms, auto defense battery etc) to the CS is acceptable imo.

Which made it quite limited and not everyone could get one. But it required at least a $60 investment, not a measly few bucks.

Precisely, should everything people paid "more" for, be given out free? If it were free, I should have just paid for a regular copy, and not a deluxe edition.

They have traits like "pig-Headed", "Dumb Luck" and "FEline Instinct" that are unavailable to anyone else, AKA Unique. And some of them are very valuable, a much lower chance of being held in place and shot at is a very good advantage.

Well, to be honest Ive never played any of these races, so I dont know how major or minor the traits are - I doubt they are enough to give their players a significant advantage over a "normal" character.

I have read from many people that have these characters, they have seen much better performance in PvP and elsewhere do to many of these traits.

Ah, but the "ordinary" races also have their traits, that in the right situations give better performance.. In the end the difference is that they are.. different.. It doesnt change the game, or give them some major advantage.. In space they are actually disadvantaged (compared to a all space trait alien) :p


If they were just visual, I would be okay with it. Heck, I'm even ok with them putting in those kinds of races (Pakleds or Caitians) because they are rare in Trek. But species that are commonly shown (Ferengi, Klingon, Tellarite) just ticks me off, especially when they don't fit with the (poor) reasoning of the C-Store.

I dont know, but I seem to remember far more humans than aliens in Starfleet.. Picard, Kirk, Sisko, Janeway, Chacotay, Seven, Geordi, Archer and so on and so forth.. Sure, there were aliens here and there (always a Vulcan for some reason) but seriously.. Have you see SB 1? There are aliens *everywhere*


Maybe not in the shows, but they by the end of the shows, there was inferrence that more would come.
Especially the Ferengi, considering all the reforms Rom would make.
Heck, in several alternate timelines, Ferengi/Klingons have been shown in Starfleet.

Again, to quote one of my favorite actors in the series - Logic dictates that a race to whom honour is essential to existance, would not likely join with another organization at war with their own people.. Hell, even Martok refused to challenge Gowron, even when he knew his orders were given with a personal (and dishonorable) agenda.. I quote again "I swore an oath" Martok was willing to do anything and everything, he was ordered, because honour demanded it.

Remember : Honour is life

Except that the Klingons in Starfleet may see the Chancellor's actions as dishonorable and unworthy of following. AKA Worf during the Klingon-Federation War. Besides that, How does that legitimize charging for that option?

Even Worf joined the Empire in this situation.. And seeing as he is "the most honourable man Ive known", that arguement is invalid.. And still wouldnt explain the number of Klingons on the blue side.. Sure, Klingons in Starfleet should be possible (traitors, cowards, exiles etc) but they should be rare.. Which is where the charge comes in


As for the Ferengi.. Do you really believe that a race that for hundred of years have cared about nothing but profit, to the point of betraying/assasinating their own familymembers would, in large numbers, join a organization where money have no value, where there is *no* profit whatsoever?

Maybe during TNG and most of Early DS9, but considering all the changes to Ferengi civilization by Zek, and the changes by Rom, and the fact that they have been depicted as in Starfleet in Alternate Futures, and the fact that Path to 2409 mentions an increase in Ferengi attending Starfleet, I would say yes. Also, if they were so scarce, why are their so many BO's?

I doubt an entire races mindset would be changed .. in a decade, millenia.. Some would "turn" sure, but in limited numbers.

Allready said that I wanted fewer Klingons and Ferengi in the BO lists.. Imo, they should have been an unique BO rewarded for a mission (help an exiled Klingon, and he joins with you)


Even if there are few shown, the "reason" that Cryptic gives for C-Store content doesn't explain them.

Simple .. You get this and this and this and this (x100).. If you want that or that, you can have it, but need to pay for it.


And as for the C-Store in general

Either 1) They are hiring more people (which is unlikely, based on their press releases)

2) Subscription pays for :
Content A
Content B
Content C
Content D

Fans want extra content (E)

Like Nebulons and such?

Content D workers instead work on Content E, which you are then charged for.

So, at the end of the day, you paid for

A,B,C, and D

But only got A,B,&C and are told to pay extra for Content E

No, because Content D is not gone, it is merely delayed
As in I paid $15 this month, got $10 worth, and was told I'd have to pay $5 for Content E.


OR 3)

You paid for A,B,C,D and so they divert some of the workers to Content E

And A,B,C,D drop in quality

And A,B,C,D will be improved upon, once Content E is out.
Not necessarily. They have shown a remarkable propensity towards releasing garbage content full of bugs, that are never fixed.

Weeeeeell, the game is not that old.. Serious gamebreaking bugs, take precedence over minor issues.. Understand that they have a strictly planned schedule a while ahead, and all fixed bugs (as well as minor requested changes) are done in the sparetime..

Id hazard a guess that the "severity" of issues and how they are prioritized in the "to-do" list is based on the number of tickets on each one.
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