Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 111
08-26-2010, 02:05 PM
Oh my Geeksplosion!

I am referring to the tech of the Cool universe: Unreachable by most of those here, especially those who disagree with me!

I have come to the conclusion that if you don't get it, you won't get it.

So, Carry On!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 112
08-26-2010, 04:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
I think the crucial thing with all the FTL talk is that time travel doesn't require real "refinement" once you get FTL. It just comes with it. Kinda like when you can build a rocket to fly to the moon, you can also build a rocket that can drop a warhead someplace on earth.

Startrek certainly says that time travel is tech coming sometime after FTL tech. But that's not what our current understanding of physics tells us. FTL inherently brings us time travel.
I get what you are saying.. As we get closer to the speed of light, time goes slower for us.. Past lightspeed, it reverses.

But..

What if we are not physically present in the "normal" time while at warp, what if its some sort of alternate reality, connected to our reality, but not quite.. You know what I mean, breaking the speed of light, without actually doing it

Would also explain why Starfleet crew doesnt age faster than the other persons that doesnt travel at warp frequently (ie: Sisko, Leeta and Quark.. At the end of season 7, theyve all aged 7 years, yet the periods they travel at warp is very different (Sisko often, Quark a few times and Leeta never (that I can remember)

Additionally, while lightspeed travel will explain how you can travel back in time (by breaking the barrier) it doesnt come with a plausible explanation on how to get *back*.. You can accelerate the passage of time around you, by traveling at high speed, but how would you decelerate (or reverse the process)?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 113
08-26-2010, 05:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thlaylie View Post
My Canon understanding appears better than those who try to justify the current system to keep it.

How are you getting the signals to virus someone else's ship into their ship?

All the mentioned encounters were long in the past, I'm sure modern ships have "anti-mallware."

ANY gravity technology of that level invalidates the use of warp drive.

Cloaking using the deflector grid.. You are correct. Forgive me I am only half Trekkie. However if I have been pounding the aft arc of a ship and am damaging the hull, Battlecloaking should be effected as cloaks have been demonstrated to be fragile. I'd say less than 50% Hull and you're SOL!
I watch a good bit of Star Trek, but I can't say I can give episode numbers. The D'derix class ship at least had an artificial black hole for a warp core as I recall. Look at memory alpha for confirmation.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 114
08-26-2010, 11:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thlaylie View Post
Oh my Geeksplosion!

I am referring to the tech of the Cool universe: Unreachable by most of those here, especially those who disagree with me!

I have come to the conclusion that if you don't get it, you won't get it.

So, Carry On!
You do realize the conversation has moved on without you right?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 115
08-26-2010, 11:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MelineAaele View Post
I get what you are saying.. As we get closer to the speed of light, time goes slower for us.. Past lightspeed, it reverses.

But..

What if we are not physically present in the "normal" time while at warp, what if its some sort of alternate reality, connected to our reality, but not quite.. You know what I mean, breaking the speed of light, without actually doing it

Would also explain why Starfleet crew doesnt age faster than the other persons that doesnt travel at warp frequently (ie: Sisko, Leeta and Quark.. At the end of season 7, theyve all aged 7 years, yet the periods they travel at warp is very different (Sisko often, Quark a few times and Leeta never (that I can remember)

Additionally, while lightspeed travel will explain how you can travel back in time (by breaking the barrier) it doesnt come with a plausible explanation on how to get *back*.. You can accelerate the passage of time around you, by traveling at high speed, but how would you decelerate (or reverse the process)?
Exponential asymptotes are fun.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 116
08-26-2010, 11:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by piwright42 View Post
You do realize the conversation has moved on without you right?

That's why I posted that.

Carry On!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 117
08-27-2010, 12:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MelineAaele View Post
I get what you are saying.. As we get closer to the speed of light, time goes slower for us.. Past lightspeed, it reverses.
That's not exactly how it works, IIRC. But it has been quite some time when I read on it.

Quote:
But..

What if we are not physically present in the "normal" time while at warp, what if its some sort of alternate reality, connected to our reality, but not quite.. You know what I mean, breaking the speed of light, without actually doing it
Stuff like wormholes do allow "breaking the speed of light" without actually doing it. You don't accelerate or anything - you just fly through the wormhole at whatever comfortable speed you like (maybe you even walk), and you're at a new place. But such a wormhole would still also bring time travel - it seems all you have to do is move one end of the wormhole around.

Now, stuff like alternate parallel realities might change that. But then, it's made up - we don't have any model for it. It's kinda like saying, "but what if he had a way of FTL travel that doesn't give us time travel! Wouldn't we then have FTL travel and no time travel?" But there is nothing in the science as we know it that would suggest how that exists. All methods of FTL travel we could come up with imply time travel, too. (And all of them contain elements that our theories do not forbid and still allow, but we have no evidence of their existence so far - that part is always pure speculation - but it has a starting point in existing science. Parallel universes or dimensions that somehow allow FTL like you describe have no such starting points - for now at least.)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 118
08-27-2010, 12:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
That's not exactly how it works, IIRC. But it has been quite some time when I read on it.


Stuff like wormholes do allow "breaking the speed of light" without actually doing it. You don't accelerate or anything - you just fly through the wormhole at whatever comfortable speed you like (maybe you even walk), and you're at a new place. But such a wormhole would still also bring time travel - it seems all you have to do is move one end of the wormhole around.

Now, stuff like alternate parallel realities might change that. But then, it's made up - we don't have any model for it. It's kinda like saying, "but what if he had a way of FTL travel that doesn't give us time travel! Wouldn't we then have FTL travel and no time travel?" But there is nothing in the science as we know it that would suggest how that exists. All methods of FTL travel we could come up with imply time travel, too. (And all of them contain elements that our theories do not forbid and still allow, but we have no evidence of their existence so far - that part is always pure speculation - but it has a starting point in existing science. Parallel universes or dimensions that somehow allow FTL like you describe have no such starting points - for now at least.)
I guess it all boils down to this: We can theorize all we like about what happens.. Timetravel might be possible, or it might not.. In the end, we dont know.

"The difference between what the least learned and the most learned person know, is inexpressibly trivial next to that, which is unknown."

-Albert Einstein
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 119
08-27-2010, 02:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thlaylie View Post
That's why I posted that.

Carry On!
That made me laugh. Thank you for being a good sport.
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