Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 71
08-27-2010, 12:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptMattSchwab
By your assertion, the Domminion War should have been over in a day.

Starfleet and the Klingons could have just waltzed up with the entire fleet to any and every Dominion Planet and just obliterated it.

So....why didn't they?

Because they are REQUIRED TO FOLLOW THE RULES.

You say they would simply ignore the Temporal Prime Directive. So, do you think the Department of Temporal Investigations would simply let the 25th Century change the future, by adopting 26th Century technology? Or would they likely send agents back to make sure things progress as they should? We saw in Voyager that enforcement of the Temporal Prime Directive comes from all angles, and is consider just like the Prime Directive, to be inviolable. (that's why they call it a Prime Directive)

Sorry, but your argument doesn't fly based on established canon.
You're mis-reading my humor as being serious about this, as evidenced by your use of CAPS LOCK to yell. Let me say it in better terms,comrade...

You are playing a game loosely based on fiction which its own writers have contradicted several times. I'm no expert, but if you say The Temporal Police wouldn't let me use a J in STO, then why didn't they stop Kirk from stealing some of our humpback whales to save earth?

Think of the whales!

See, the writers of Star Trek are allowed to bend the rules and so are we. Saying "You can't add the Enterprise J because it doesn't fit the current timeline!" is easily circumvented by some creative license, which is most definitely canon, Star Trek does it all the time.

Also, remove TOS uniforms from the game, they're breaking someones immersion probably.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 72
08-27-2010, 12:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dstahl View Post
UPDATE
We are not making a 2 mile long Enterprise J. In fact I think we should just stop saying the Enterprise J is coming, because Enterprise J refers to a very specific ship that I can confirm we are not making.

The idea is - we want to make a ship that moves ship designs closer towards the J, but based on internal discussions we are not going to be making the J as it appeared in Enterprise. It is going to be some other ship between now and then. J was just a way of saying a forward looking ship like the J.
Well thanks for clearing this up, at lest now I know I will not be buying it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dstahl View Post
As I said - we should not have put the J in the poll because that specific ship is not going to get made as is. What the J votes represent is some sort of future enterprise design. That is what we want to make.

If people are upset about the fact we put the J in the poll, then I can understand... but its a forum poll and does not necessarily have a direct correlation to what we end up making for the final product.

Sorry J lovers - I hope that we can instead deliver something else representative of "why" you voted for the J.
Sorry but I voted for the J because that's the ship mentioned and that's the pic shown. My vote doesn't represent some sort of future enterprise design. I didn't want a J like in between here and there ship. I wanted the J (in look, not in size) because I loved the way it looked in the 2 seconds of air time it got, the way it looks on Doug Drexler's site and video and the way it looks in the Ships of the Line calender. To me this is like asking people if they want the Constitution and after you get them all worked up because they think they are getting the Constitution then you tell them that what they will be getting isn't the Constitution at all but something sort of like it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 73 Signyfing something
08-27-2010, 12:26 PM
Did anyone catch that the developers are going to be making ships that start laying the stepping stones toward (but not including Js)?

Does this mean we're going to see Fleet-constructed spacecraft or spacestations?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 74
08-27-2010, 12:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dstahl View Post
UPDATE
We are not making a 2 mile long Enterprise J. In fact I think we should just stop saying the Enterprise J is coming, because Enterprise J refers to a very specific ship that I can confirm we are not making.

The idea is - we want to make a ship that moves ship designs closer towards the J, but based on internal discussions we are not going to be making the J as it appeared in Enterprise. It is going to be some other ship between now and then. J was just a way of saying a forward looking ship like the J.
That's what the Fleet Escorts were.

Frankly, if you want to move ship designs forward in the future, you might do well to actually go and revisit some of the concept art Cryptic obtained from Perpetual Entertainment's work. There's Ryan Dening's Federation Flagship design which is drifting in early Deep Space Encounters which could be playable. There's the sovereign-variant hologram that's in Earth Space Dock's shipyard (and also hanging over Admiral Quinn's desk) along with other ships such as the oft-mentioned Tahoe-class and some of the donuts ships.

Seriously, you could do worse than actually start using the concept art you got and tweaking it to make it playable instead of just placed in-game as easter eggs. I mean, that's stuff from top artists you have there and that you're barely even using. >_<
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 75
08-27-2010, 01:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dstahl View Post
As I said - we should not have put the J in the poll because that specific ship is not going to get made as is. What the J votes represent is some sort of future enterprise design. That is what we want to make.

If people are upset about the fact we put the J in the poll, then I can understand... but its a forum poll and does not necessarily have a direct correlation to what we end up making for the final product.

Sorry J lovers - I hope that we can instead deliver something else representative of "why" you voted for the J.
Why would you even have a poll thats twisted like this?! at least say it wont be "the same"

...... wow just wow...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 76
08-27-2010, 01:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dstahl View Post
As I said - we should not have put the J in the poll because that specific ship is not going to get made as is. What the J votes represent is some sort of future enterprise design. That is what we want to make.

If people are upset about the fact we put the J in the poll, then I can understand... but its a forum poll and does not necessarily have a direct correlation to what we end up making for the final product.

Sorry J lovers - I hope that we can instead deliver something else representative of "why" you voted for the J.

I think this was a good decision on your guys part. The J doesn't deserve to be in STO as a playable ship. It's from the 26th Century and has no place in the STO timeline. I think whatever ship you guys do come up with will be appreciated!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 77
08-27-2010, 01:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkbond646 View Post
I think this was a good decision on your guys part. The J doesn't deserve to be in STO as a playable ship. It's from the 26th Century and has no place in the STO timeline. I think whatever ship you guys do come up with will be appreciated!
The exact same could be said of the Excelsior.

The exact same IS being said about the NX.

I just don't see it. How can it apply so easily to one ship (the J) and not the other ships? It's the 25th Century, why is the Excelsior top o' the line and the Akira or the Olympic or the Centaur not? Why is the Stargazer equal the T3 Excelsior and the Lakota outclasses it? The Stargazer is post-dominion war design. Why is the Excalibur class T2? Why are the Nimbus and the Avenger equal to the Excelsior? It's the 25th century!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 78
08-27-2010, 01:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eulif_Davis
They represented it as being what they will develop next, based on player choice. That means they obviously ALREADY had CBS approval, which means it technically becomes a written contract, and can therefore be legally enforced. I don't have the resources to do so, but I sure as hell would join with someone that does.

There was no confusion in the option, either. It clearly said "Enterprise J", and they clearly linked to a picture of that particular ship.
Your legal threats aside...

Members of the STO team often use the poll to help decide which things to work on next... because we have a gigantic internal wishlist of things we WANT to make .. but sometimes it is hard to pick which one should go next. There were people on our team that wanted to make the J... but... it has been recommended we not make that specific ship for the fact that we could not accurately create it "as it was envisioned".


As far as it being pre-approved by CBS, this was not the case... the poll was put up by the designers prior to approvals with CBS. I've since talked with CBS and we've agreed we are not doing the J because it is just not appropriate as it was envisioned as a player ship that everyone should be flying around in (its just too big as described to be gameplay appropriate).

What CBS has instead suggested, that we will be following up on, is creating a design that is an in between step between the Enterprise we know now and the Enterprise J.... a... I wonder what the Enterprise H would look like...

They also suggested allowing players to help provide feedback and design input on what that ship should look like (similar to the Titan). That would be awesome, and I'd love to do it, but have to follow up with legal on terms of how we could allow player designs for the ship or how that would even work.

So yes... the poll generally represents things we want to make... but in this case, the J just isn't going to work as it is described. It would have to be something different and if it has to be something different... then it isn't the J but a prototype or earler ship.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 79
08-27-2010, 01:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dstahl View Post
Your legal threats aside...

Members of the STO team often use the poll to help decide which things to work on next... because we have a gigantic internal wishlist of things we WANT to make .. but sometimes it is hard to pick which one should go next. There were people on our team that wanted to make the J... but... it has been recommended we not make that specific ship for the fact that we could not accurately create it "as it was envisioned".


As far as it being pre-approved by CBS, this was not the case... the poll was put up by the designers prior to approvals with CBS. I've since talked with CBS and we've agreed we are not doing the J because it is just not appropriate as it was envisioned as a player ship that everyone should be flying around in (its just too big as described to be gameplay appropriate).

What CBS has instead suggested, that we will be following up on, is creating a design that is an in between step between the Enterprise we know now and the Enterprise J.... a... I wonder what the Enterprise H would look like...

They also suggested allowing players to help provide feedback and design input on what that ship should look like (similar to the Titan). That would be awesome, and I'd love to do it, but have to follow up with legal on terms of how we could allow player designs for the ship or how that would even work.

So yes... the poll generally represents things we want to make... but in this case, the J just isn't going to work as it is described. It would have to be something different and if it has to be something different... then it isn't the J but a prototype or earler ship.
Dstahl quick question? what about the enterprise -E we have now? are they gone and dead... ( poor data that would be twice ) or are they still alive?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 80
08-27-2010, 01:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zodi-emish
Dstahl quick question? what about the enterprise -E we have now? are they gone and dead... ( poor data that would be twice ) or are they still alive?
I don't think the E's have been ruled out.

The ship team's idea behind doing the J is being able to make something more future forward. CBS suggested coming up with a concept for what an Enterprise H might look like. However if we go with something between "now and then" - it could look far more like the E than the J if that is what players wanted.
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