Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 71
08-30-2010, 06:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by starkaos View Post
The price is $15 not $20 and people pay more for stuff that is purely cosmetic. At least the Excelsior has a few interesting features to it.
1500 Cryptic points, the minimum that can be purchased to buy the Excelsior, is $18.75.

Significantly closer to $20 than to $15.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 72
08-30-2010, 06:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cryptiecop
Might just as well add in any player race, level 51, to the C-Store so people wouldnt need to grind up a toon...make is 20,000 CP and call it a day...lazy gamers...

This is shades of SOE and the SWG trading card game....
There is one ship. It gives no in-game advantage whatsoever with the 'possible' but definitely minuscule and transient exception of PvP play. There's no reason to lose both grip and perspective

Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoNoir View Post
Maybe. The pots are concerning because that screws over scholars, but anyway.

The biggest difference between Turbine and Cryptic is that most of the things in Turbine's store are obtainable in-game. And there are ways of earning Turbine points in-game, and beyond that subscribers get a not-insignificant dollop of store points every month.

Personally, I would prefer not to see microtransactions at all, but obviously that's not going to happen. That doesn't mean, however, that we should just shrug and smile and fork over the cash when Cryptic runs its store in the least equitable way possible.

Oh, AND! I'm sure Turbine's store does this too, every MT store seems to, but the whole "buy 1500 Cryptic points for a 1200 Cryptic point item and we'll pocket the change, thank you" paradigm is disgustingly unethical.
Turbine's store already contains wayyyyy more absolutely-definitely-no-question-about-it in-game-advantage items than Cryptic's. But then it would... as it's going F2P. It's not a concept I like, in an MMO tbh... but if a game is fun, enjoyable and gives value-for-money... then I'd be a fool to pass over playing it just because a part of my brain abhors micro-transaction structures. Surely. As I've said... I like flying around in the Excelsior. I'd perhaps like it more if I hadn't paid for it. But I like it, nonetheless. If I insisted on comparing the cost of the Excelsior to the cost of The Mines of Moria expansion (for example) - and simply couldn't see past that, then I'd be missing out on something I enjoy.

I don't know... maybe I'm just not miserable enough.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 73
08-30-2010, 06:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoNoir View Post
1500 Cryptic points, the minimum that can be purchased to buy the Excelsior, is $18.75.

Significantly closer to $20 than to $15.
Still stand by the $15 price tag since you can put the extra 300 CP for another purchase
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 74
08-30-2010, 06:47 PM
[quote=Nubia]There is one ship. It gives no in-game advantage whatsoever with the 'possible' but definitely minuscule and transient exception of PvP play. There's no reason to lose both grip and perspective

Agree...but that is how SOE started and now Cryptic is following suit it seems...starts off with one item and then eventually goes to more and more, inevitably leading to some sort of gameplay impact somewhere down the road.

I understand the developers want to make $$$...I just don't agree with their approach is all.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 75
08-30-2010, 06:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoNoir View Post
1500 Cryptic points, the minimum that can be purchased to buy the Excelsior, is $18.75.

Significantly closer to $20 than to $15.
Ye gods. How about spending $30 on this lot. Not only is the Excelsior cheaper, but you might even get more fun from it
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 76
08-30-2010, 06:57 PM
[quote=Cryptiecop]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nubia
There is one ship. It gives no in-game advantage whatsoever with the 'possible' but definitely minuscule and transient exception of PvP play. There's no reason to lose both grip and perspective

Agree...but that is how SOE started and now Cryptic is following suit it seems...starts off with one item and then eventually goes to more and more, inevitably leading to some sort of gameplay impact somewhere down the road.

I understand the developers want to make $$$...I just don't agree with their approach is all.
I'm with you... but that has yet to come to pass here and until it does... IF it does... then I may well draw my own line in the sand and move on.

Have to say though... there are other issues with the game as is that would have more bearing on that decision if allowed to continue... bugs... lack of content, for example... and the only real measure of a game that I have... that I find playing it something I enjoy and look forward to.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 77
08-30-2010, 07:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by starkaos View Post
Still stand by the $15 price tag since you can put the extra 300 CP for another purchase
No, because (in this theoretical scenario) I wouldn't have bought those superfluous 300 CP if Cryptic hadn't forced me to overpay in order to get the Excelsior.

If the buyer wouldn't have bought extra CPs in the first place, then they have to be tacked onto the cost of whatever it is the buyer wants. If they happen to get anything with it, because that beats having a bunch of CPs you had no choice in getting lying around doing nothing, at best that's like getting an extra thrown into the purchase price.

The Gamestop edition of STO is $20. It's not $10 plus $10 for the TOS Constitution that is packaged with it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 78
08-31-2010, 10:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoNoir View Post
No, because (in this theoretical scenario) I wouldn't have bought those superfluous 300 CP if Cryptic hadn't forced me to overpay in order to get the Excelsior.

If the buyer wouldn't have bought extra CPs in the first place, then they have to be tacked onto the cost of whatever it is the buyer wants. If they happen to get anything with it, because that beats having a bunch of CPs you had no choice in getting lying around doing nothing, at best that's like getting an extra thrown into the purchase price.

The Gamestop edition of STO is $20. It's not $10 plus $10 for the TOS Constitution that is packaged with it.
Yeah that's one of my biggest complaints with point systems. Things are purposely priced so that you have to over buy points to encourage you to buy more and spend more.

One of the things that drove me crazy on Xbox Live. Thankfully with my PS3 I get charged exactly what I pay for with real money not points (as long as it's over $5).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 79
08-31-2010, 11:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueYak
Just the other day I was asked by a group of friends, which I have been gaming online with for many years now, whether or not STO was worth playing. At that point I had to think about it a few minutes at which point I told them no. A bit concerning as a subscriber.

I asked myself why would I say such a thing. After a bit of self analysis I came to the conclusion that the state of the game is heading in the wrong direction. I cannot consciously recommend an MMO which requires you to dig into your wallet to acquire ingame items beyond vanity. Most successful MMORPGs pride themselves on an online persistant world which gives the gamer a sense of accomplishment for time spent ingame. The C-Store does not fulfill that niche in the slightest bit. My understanding of the C-Store when I purchased my lifetime sub was that it was going to be used to sell non game changing things like cosmetic items and account services etc. As a gamer, with a pretty good understanding of the game, I can safely say this is not so.

Instead of seeing the big picture here, it really seems you (Cryptic) are milking the few gamers, who play and utilize the C-Store, as a viable model for future income as opposed to building that great online persistant world which brings in subscriptions. I hesistate using the word "few" to describe the C-Store purchasers but let's face it, in the grand scheme of MMORPGers they really are a minicule few. I do have to give them credit as they are the vocal majority on the forums from which you get your feedback.

In my opinion as a MMORPGer, what would generate more subscriptions is having a game to log into which lets gamers set a goal, short or longterm, and let the gamer have at it. This is done through rewarding content whether it be through pvp with a reason (crosses fingers for territorial pvp), endgame or just some simple quest to get a new shirt or crazy looking weapon. These sorts of things also spur community between players. "Hey, where'd you get that spiffy hat?", "I did the quest chain starting over there on Starbase One." Instead we don't even have to ask. Instead we know it came from the C-Store which took no ingame time to acquire.

The direction your C-Store is heading makes this impossible. Where is the reward? Where do we spend our time ingame? "Hey look at that guy in the new awesome ship! Did he just do some new STF ingame?" Nope, he bought it on the C-Store. Instead we are rewarded with our real world wallets. This is not the way most MMORPGers work. The ones that utilize the C-Store are what you might call "gold buyers" in other games. Buyers of items ingame which affect gameplay with real money. I am not saying this is wrong. To each his own i say. But please don't cater to that sort of subscriber. It seems on the forums here if the community wants something done in a reasonable amount of time they just say "add it to the C-Store" and it lights a fire under your butts.

Is this really the direction you want to go? Do you want to play with the big boys and make a game which attracts more subscribers? I could spend money on the C-Store but wouldn't you rather have five of my friends or family members subscribing at $15 a month? Who's to say they won't get more new subscribers also? Think of all the content you could provide or ingame hours for the gamer with just the items you have in your C-Store as rewards for STFs, quest chains, token exchanges etc. That is countless hours of time spent ingame to acquire just those items. For those that choose to buy it from the C-Store, let them. For everyone else it would provide the much content and reward we seek from an MMORPG. That adds up to many months of subcriptions and would surely attract new subscribers which in my opinion this game really needs.

Thank you for your time Cryptic. It's still not too late to change direction and build that great sci-fi world set in the Star Trek universe many of us were hoping for.
Have to say i totally agree, Just look at the polls they do, you get the feeling that they are asking for your input to make the game better, Look at the "Which "Official" Starship would you most like to see added?" poll nowhere in that thread would you see "added to the c-store" but over 3000 people voted think it would be added as content or ingame via other means and what do they do, they thank you for your kind input then add it to the c-store. I find the whole c-store thing turns me off the game and its direction anything that the community really wants ingame cryptic will add to the c-store and make you pay extra for it.. So really what is the point on leveling a character why not just add them to the c-store aswell. grrr
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 80
09-02-2010, 01:07 PM
The problem does not lie with the C-Store, but rather with how Cryptic is handling it. Unfortunately, it is a major problem no matter how one views it. A lot of people (including myself) are put off by it, and a large number of them have left the game, canceling their subs in the process because of it. That is hurting (and will continue to hurt) Cryptic's long-term revenue, if you wish to look at things from a purely financial viewpoint. What Cryptic is making in short-term sales from the microtransactions is going to cost them in long-term sub fees.

It is quite obvious that the C-Store is making enough money off of players to warrant its continued existence as well as the continued expansion of said paid items (I will refrain from using the word "content" as it is quite a subjective term thrown around and defined in so many ways). While there will still be a fair amount of people who will continue to put up with it, there are still a lot of people who refuse to pay a single extra credit on this crap (and everyone does have a breaking point, so more people will end up badmouthing Cryptic eventually). I want a lot of what's up there, but I will not pay any amount of money as long as they continue this practice of what I see as nothing short of money-grubbing. Hell, I really want to play a Caitian, but I will not as I am in the middle of a C-Store boycott. As a lifer, it is the ONLY way to vote with my wallet.

Another problem with the C-Store is the fact that Cryptic said that anything in the store will be made available in-game. With the exception of the Intrepid/Defiant/Galaxy refits NOTHING is attainable through any other means. I agree with others in this thread that there is a compromise that (I'm sure) a lot of us that are against this policy of selling your soul would be fine with. Hold true to your promise and make these things unlockable through an accolade, STF reward, or even a badge purchase and I know that at least I will complain a lot less. Hell, you don't even have to remove the C-Store at all. Let those of us who want to get their new shiny now the chance to buy it for real world bucks and let those of us who are willing to be patient and work towards our goal of getting it the chance to do so as well. I see it as a win-win for everyone involved.
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