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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
09-07-2010, 12:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
I think this is part of what dstahl and Jack Emmert mean when they are talking about bringing better quality. Cryptic is good at churning out something that works quickly. But it could work a lot better.
While I did have some faith restored by Jack's interview, the problem is that STO lacks/lacked both quantity AND quality by gamer standards (advancing market = advancing standards); so while it's nice to hear that quality will be the focus, the game is still lacking for the foreseeable future.

Now fast forward a year from today, where we're looking to have 40+ multi-faction episodes (assuming possible delays and holiday breaks) in addition to whatever else they got around to and things might be different. But that is assuming that the game's population hasn't been whittled to the die-hards by Cataclysm and SW:tOR (among other games).

Quote:
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
Season 2 brought a lot of diverse things. Level Cap Increase. 2 new currencies (Latinum, Emblems). Diplomacy content. Klingon PvE Missions. Faction-Neutral PvE Missions. A Fleet Action. Refits. Mini-Games. Ship Interiors

That might have been too many things at once. Some stuff I can see being done in parallel. Others less so. For example - add Diplomacy Content and Ship Interiors and compare it to PvE Missions. I have the feeling pretty much the same teams are working on that, since you need to build story content (dialogs!) for them, and you need maps. Ther could have been a few more episodes added to the game for that. Or the Fleet Action could have been more polished and better balanced.
It boils down to perception:

Most Klingons believed that Season 2 would be primarily a Klingon update, and we got 8 episodes; the perception is the eight is a terribly small number and the quality of those eight takes a back seat when weighed against what the Federation got.

It's nice that Cryptic is learning that quality matters (as said above), but they haven't learned to balance it yet when the relationship with part of your playerbase is on the line.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
So, if Cryptic is keeping to their word, we might see less of such complex updates. We might see more focused stuff, with less bugs and more features within it. More depth.
We'll see how this works out in Season 3, I suppose.
Season 3 being mainly bug fixes aside, it again boils down to perception.

Cryptic is releasing and showing teasers for this and that, but what are the received messages to their players?

Neutral missions send a message that they can't hit both individually so they have to do them at the same time; continued work on the Nebula sends the message that they're still putting the Federation first instead of honoring what they said about increasing the Klingon ships (and time tables); releasing Federation ships with special abilities and BO layouts (and nothing but promises for the Klingons) sends the message that even those they said the Klingons are getting attention, the Federation is more important to them; and so on.

Get the picture? Sony has made a lot of changes and improvements to SWG over the past few years, but does anybody care? No they don't, and If Cryptic wants to fix their image, they need to pay more attention to how their actions will reflect back on them by the players.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
09-07-2010, 01:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sivar View Post
Get the picture? Sony has made a lot of changes and improvements to SWG over the past few years, but does anybody care? No they don't, and If Cryptic wants to fix their image, they need to pay more attention to how their actions will reflect back on them by the players.
I think that's one of the lesson Jack Emmert spoke in one of the first Neverwinter interviews.

Start without a feature, adding it later will go unnoticed by most.
Start with a mediocre or badly implemented feature, improving it later will go unnoticed by most.
It seems from a certain business perspective, starting without features with mediocre quality can still yield good returns. But it might not be sustainable in the long run, since once you are known for lacking feature and mediocre quality, no one wants your product.

Neverwinter as well as Season 3 might need to prove that Cryptic can also deliver quality, otherwise they don't need to really bother churning out new games at a faster pace then most companies, since it won't sell anymore. Of course, it could also be too late for that, though I don't think that. Not if they can deliver at least.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
09-07-2010, 06:12 AM
Trust?...there is no trust between KDF players and Cryptc...It is nice that they are 'trying' to get on good terms, but I must say that until they deliver, my trust...and I might be speaking for more people than myself....my trust will not be earned until the content is delivered and is not just slapped together like the new Kar'Fi, or portions of the Klingon missions....
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
09-07-2010, 06:35 AM
I trust Dstahl when he says that the development of the KDf is a concern he has interest in fleshing out more. One can not argue though that we feel neglected and are leery of any promises made since very little has come from such promises. Once even a small part od any playerbase feels neglected its always difficult for the Dev's to reclaim thier trust without action to back it up.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
09-07-2010, 06:50 AM
My number one recommendation is to ignore a number of Fed posters. I mean actually put them on ignore. There are three that come to mind that actively try to disrupt any and all constructive Klingon discussions, especially those that get attention from the devs. I will not post their names here but if anyone wants them send me a PM and you can add them to your ignore list.

Let's avoid getting drag into the stupid arguments about "But you were meant to be a step child" or "You shouldn't even be a faction" or any iteration of the same tired and ignorant claim. These people have their own agenda and it is to discredit and destroy our faction.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
09-07-2010, 10:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleTerribleRomulan
like the new Kar'Fi
This ship is a perfect example.

It could have been such an amazing piece of the puzzle. And had the potential to move KDF evolution forward.

The story around it ... it's a reverse engineered ship from an ancient enemy.

That's got so much potential.

The reality of it ...

It's a carrier no one asked for, has limited in-game functionality, and the "ancient enemy" accounts for two story missions. And that's it! You can't encounter these "ancient enemies" anywhere else. The way the thing was implemented, I see no reason to bother reverse engineering a ship in the first place.

The banner "Ancient Enemies" looked cool (to me), but didn't really represent the patch very well since they were such an insignificant portion of what was released. I blinked and I was done with the missions.

The carrier had a lot of potential both with the story and with the game. But it fell very short of its potential. And so when people say it's a ship no one asked for, I'm now of a mind to agree with that. It could have been amazing, even as a carrier, if some things were developed differently. But the way it all turned out, it really is just a fish out of water.

@Varrangian: That's some great advice. Advice I have trouble listening to. But it works. It really does. Takes some willpower, but when you do what you suggest, you find it much easier to participate in discussions, not get infraction points and generally be more even keeled and open minded.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
09-07-2010, 10:51 AM
i wasnt saying that ugc is a waste on the kdf side and it is ow so most definatly coming, the thing that worrys me is that whilst the feds have ambles of unique planets and zones including poi's and space stations and a reci planet to tie there missions into not including the fact they have a dipo bridge on there ships to utilise too the kdf have maybe 2-3 planets to utilize, maybe 2 sectors at best and 1 space station and 1 neutral station, where are we going to create our own content for it.

if they unlock every fed zone to us bar regulas and sirius or even give us 2 more pve only zones with little episode content within them just for the kdf with cardy and ramy space for us to utilize ugc into and for somewhere for leveling kdf players to go into and play and level up that would be very impressive and add huge scope as a building block to the kdf side.

there are already presidents of kdf zones that could be added within the feds own episodes where they load into a kdf zone for stop the kdf q's, like the one where low end feds do the listening posts and the other where they help a kdf battlefleet to take down an undine battleship.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
09-07-2010, 11:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by superchum View Post
This ship is a perfect example.

It could have been such an amazing piece of the puzzle. And had the potential to move KDF evolution forward.

The story around it ... it's a reverse engineered ship from an ancient enemy.

That's got so much potential.

The reality of it ...

It's a carrier no one asked for, has limited in-game functionality, and the "ancient enemy" accounts for two story missions. And that's it! You can't encounter these "ancient enemies" anywhere else. The way the thing was implemented, I see no reason to bother reverse engineering a ship in the first place.

The banner "Ancient Enemies" looked cool (to me), but didn't really represent the patch very well since they were such an insignificant portion of what was released. I blinked and I was done with the missions.

The carrier had a lot of potential both with the story and with the game. But it fell very short of its potential. And so when people say it's a ship no one asked for, I'm now of a mind to agree with that. It could have been amazing, even as a carrier, if some things were developed differently. But the way it all turned out, it really is just a fish out of water.

@Varrangian: That's some great advice. Advice I have trouble listening to. But it works. It really does. Takes some willpower, but when you do what you suggest, you find it much easier to participate in discussions, not get infraction points and generally be more even keeled and open minded.
Yes, the banner looked nice...but that's about it...lol Everything has fallen short with little to no follow-through on the end of the devs...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
09-07-2010, 11:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The.Grand.Nagus View Post
Realistically speaking, the new weekly episodes and an occasional new Klingon specific episode is about the most we're going to get from the Dev team. I'd love more, but thats just being realistic. I think the REAL source of new Klingon content is going to come from UGC in season 3, so I just hope the Klingon fan fiction writers are preparing their stories now.
This is one of the reason we asked for the UGC engine to be developed in the first place. We recognize that we'll never be able to keep up with player's desire for content.

I've discussed in the past that there is diminishing returns for devoting a ton of time on any one specific piece of content. Case in point the STFs. We spent *the most* time out of all of our mission types, making those STFs (multiple weeks of development for 1 mission) and the problem is - they are very complex to make and ended up with bugs and very few people ultimately end up being able to play them. They are at a point now where I'd redesign them and open them up for smaller teams or cross-faction teams if I had the manpower to do it.

The lessons learned from that is that we can waste a lot of precious content development time making content that is exclusive to a very small percentage of the paying customer base. When you have limited content development resources (which we've always had) it makes more sense for us to be spending our content efforts on either missions that everyone can enjoy or tools that allow players to make tons of content on their own.

This is why you are seeing me spend the apples I have on Featured Episodes and UGC. They are the biggest bang for the buck for everyone and ultimately they help solve the content problem in 2 ways: They provide a base of content for *any* future faction over time, and UGC allows players to create the content they are interested in playing. If that is more KDF content - then players will be able to make far more missions than we ever could.

I really hope that helps to explain our thinking and why we are spending our mission dollars where we are.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
09-07-2010, 11:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dstahl View Post
This is one of the reason we asked for the UGC engine to be developed in the first place. We recognize that we'll never be able to keep up with player's desire for content.

I've discussed in the past that there is diminishing returns for devoting a ton of time on any one specific piece of content. Case in point the STFs. We spent *the most* time out of all of our mission types, making those STFs (multiple weeks of development for 1 mission) and the problem is - they are very complex to make and ended up with bugs and very few people ultimately end up being able to play them. They are at a point now where I'd redesign them and open them up for smaller teams or cross-faction teams if I had the manpower to do it.

The lessons learned from that is that we can waste a lot of precious content development time making content that is exclusive to a very small percentage of the paying customer base. When you have limited content development resources (which we've always had) it makes more sense for us to be spending our content efforts on either missions that everyone can enjoy or tools that allow players to make tons of content on their own.

This is why you are seeing me spend the apples I have on Featured Episodes and UGC. They are the biggest bang for the buck for everyone and ultimately they help solve the content problem in 2 ways: They provide a base of content for *any* future faction over time, and UGC allows players to create the content they are interested in playing. If that is more KDF content - then players will be able to make far more missions than we ever could.

I really hope that helps to explain our thinking and why we are spending our mission dollars where we are.
without giving to much away can you tell us where the kdf will be able to create our ugc content.
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