Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
09-13-2010, 01:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
Klingons are not as stupid as Pakleds. Otherwise there would have been no point to introduce the Pakleds.

But it is is clearly a Federation Engineering/Scientist shtick to come up with odd deflector dish modifications to achieve the required effect of the day. I think there is even a scene where the Jem'Hardar mention their admiration for this ability of Starfleet Engineers, implying that this type of improvisation is not found on others.

If you want the Klingons not to be only taking scraps from the Feddie table, a Klingon option should be fully Klingon. Challenging the Breen to honor duel, or simply dropping his shields with disruptor fire and then beaming the Deferi over. That's the Klingon approach.
As a Klingon, one might even question whether someone that was taken as a slave deserves a rescue, or if his honor can only be restored by dying with the ship he was enslaved on. (Not necessarily all Klingons will come to that conclusion, but it might be on the table.)

Remember that episode about the Klingon-Federation-Benzite Officer exchange program? The Klingons reaction to finding some kind of metal-eating organic material was not studying it and finding counter-measures, but looking for a way to avenge the suspected betrayal of the Enterprise. That's how Klingon priorities should be. Unless they are just Feds with funny foreheads. (But why would we need another one of those?)
I like your thinking on this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cheer View Post
If you pay, you still have to fight or your fail the mission. At least, that's what happened to me.
Thats curiuos. Seems Klingons are to play as if they are nothing more than stupid beasts of war and not "thinking" soldiers.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
09-13-2010, 01:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gildred View Post

The science officer piping in with some brilliant scheme to fool the Breen sensors so we could beam off the Deferi and then get away before they discover the trick? BRILLIANT! Most Trek-like mission to date. Felt like the perfect starfleet solution to the problem. The only thing that could have made it better was voice-overs bringing that little extra bit of life to the Boffs actions.

But all in all, I loved it.
i never got his option, it only asks me if i want to pay the gold. does this option come up if i say no to that?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
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# 13
09-13-2010, 02:52 PM
Ive got to agree with the OP that this was a great mission. The negotiation, bartering and clever solution offered by the bridge officers made this feel just like I was in an episode, and is more the approach I would expect from a Starfleet vessel.

That said I agree that the Kilngons should get a similar choice in approach, rather than being shown as aggressive savages. They are far from it, and have shown their intelligence and resourcefulness throughout the tv shows.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
09-13-2010, 03:02 PM
123456789-0
Quote:
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
Klingons are not as stupid as Pakleds. Otherwise there would have been no point to introduce the Pakleds.

But it is is clearly a Federation Engineering/Scientist shtick to come up with odd deflector dish modifications to achieve the required effect of the day. I think there is even a scene where the Jem'Hardar mention their admiration for this ability of Starfleet Engineers, implying that this type of improvisation is not found on others.

That was a vorta '' and I bet you brought one of those famed starfleet engineers with you who can turn rocks into replicators'' and besides its your sci officer not your engineer that comes up with the idea.

If you want the Klingons not to be only taking scraps from the Feddie table, a Klingon option should be fully Klingon. Challenging the Breen to honor duel, or simply dropping his shields with disruptor fire and then beaming the Deferi over. That's the Klingon approach.
As a Klingon, one might even question whether someone that was taken as a slave deserves a rescue, or if his honor can only be restored by dying with the ship he was enslaved on. (Not necessarily all Klingons will come to that conclusion, but it might be on the table.)

I am not suggesting give the KDF the same option the feds have but rather another option that involves a boarding action and basically a jailbreak for the defari.

I doubt a honour duel would be something the breen would agree to, they care little about honour and they mock the klingons about it quite often.
Then there is the matter that my captain is a lethean and not a klingon so he might well think of a clever scheme to be able to beam over to their ship and do some breen killing.

Remember that episode about the Klingon-Federation-Benzite Officer exchange program? The Klingons reaction to finding some kind of metal-eating organic material was not studying it and finding counter-measures, but looking for a way to avenge the suspected betrayal of the Enterprise. That's how Klingon priorities should be. Unless they are just Feds with funny foreheads. (But why would we need another one of those?)
True but for now the Klingons are helping the defari because of a ancient matter of honour where the defari helped the empire by saving a old emperors life against the breen. Basically the empire owes them one.
That and Jempok tells you to help the defari so they are more inclined to give the KDF their secrets and not the federation.
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# 15
09-14-2010, 12:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roach View Post
Thats curiuos. Seems Klingons are to play as if they are nothing more than stupid beasts of war and not "thinking" soldiers.
It has nothing to do with stupid beasts of war. It is Klingon mentality. They need to show their strength to the Breen. That is certainly not done by buying the slaves, nor by out-witting the Breen with some fancy tech tricks. That's a weasely maneuver not worthy of a Klingon Warrior. Show strength, inspire fear in the Breen, so he (or others of his species) will think twice about trying to do this kind of stuff again.

The survival of the Deferi has no real relevance for someone born in the Klingon culture. It's an entirely optional thing. It is not even that relevant for diplomatic matters - the goal is to make the Breen run and leave Deferi space. The Deferi Ambassador might mourn the loss of his fellow Deferi, but seeing the Breen retreat will be even more valuable to him. This will end to any slavery, too.

Showing your willingness to sacrifice some innocents for your goal proves how serious the Klingons are. Out-Tricking the Breen just shows that you have a weak spot - you didn't want those slaves to die. It will invite the Breen to use human - or rather "Deferi" shields. Which will only mean you will have to sacrifice those lives later. Or you could just give up, because you are clearly not willing to do what is necessary.
Just like Starfleet. That's is the kind of behavior why the Federation is weak and the Klingons are strong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ash-Brewster View Post
I doubt a honour duel would be something the breen would agree to, they care little about honour and they mock the klingons about it quite often.
The latest weekly episode indicates that Breen do have a concept of honor. It's just not Klingon honor, but it might still work.
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Join Date: Dec 2007
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# 16
09-14-2010, 04:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
It has nothing to do with stupid beasts of war. It is Klingon mentality. They need to show their strength to the Breen. .
Ah, strength can be shown with superior tactical thinking as well as the power of one's arm. This mission is fun, but only gives the Klingon one option, and I think it could offer more. A simple, decisive shot to the Vessels shield generators and a quick and effieicient Beam out of the slaves- then blowing the Breen to vapor should be possible.
Make the "decisive" shot a random chance affected by a series of possible Player character bonuses, id neccassary. Heck, if we are theorycrafting, redesign the mission to have a optional rescue based on the three archetypes played by the character base.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
The survival of the Deferi has no real relevance for someone born in the Klingon culture.

Showing your willingness to sacrifice some innocents for your goal proves how serious the Klingons are. Out-Tricking the Breen just shows that you have a weak spot - you didn't want those slaves to die..
Are not the Klingon honor bound by an old debt to protect the Deferi as best as our honor demands? Think of the secondary idea as "counting coup", which is a time honored pratice in most warrior cultures. I take first that which you have denied me, then I kill you as show for others of your culture to know - We are a foe worthy of your fear and respect.
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# 17
09-14-2010, 05:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roach View Post
Ah, strength can be shown with superior tactical thinking as well as the power of one's arm. This mission is fun, but only gives the Klingon one option, and I think it could offer more. A simple, decisive shot to the Vessels shield generators and a quick and effieicient Beam out of the slaves- then blowing the Breen to vapor should be possible.
Make the "decisive" shot a random chance affected by a series of possible Player character bonuses, id neccassary. Heck, if we are theorycrafting, redesign the mission to have a optional rescue based on the three archetypes played by the character base.
I would certainly like another option, but again, I am not sure any other option is actually "good" for the Klingon ideals.

Quote:
Are not the Klingon honor bound by an old debt to protect the Deferi as best as our honor demands? Think of the secondary idea as "counting coup", which is a time honored pratice in most warrior cultures. I take first that which you have denied me, then I kill you as show for others of your culture to know - We are a foe worthy of your fear and respect.
Honor bound to protect every single Deferi, or honor bound to protect the Deferi race and government? That could be a fine and important distinction. And my point still stands - if we show the Breen hostages could work against us, we might invite even more abuse. Better sacrifice some weak Deferi now then lose the entire conflict because you showed the Breen your weakness.

This is the kind of distinction I just expect from Klingon and Federation takes on problem solving. Klingons should be far more willing to be ruthless and aggressive. Impress your enemy with your willpower and strength. The Federation won't do that if there are other options on the table. But these other options are preferred by the Feds because Feds and Klinks have different moral ideals.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
09-14-2010, 05:38 AM
Heh,


As a fed I decided to blow up the ship...with the hostages still in it.


I got a firm warning from my BO citing opposite thinking in dealing with the issue. I didn't want to pay, and them hostages are just another mouth to feed.

And whats with the ambassador jethro guy telling me not to engage the breen, yet I gots a daily to do?

Where does this work in?

Kill the breen, but dont kill the breen?


BTW Roach love the yellow beard
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
09-14-2010, 06:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
I would certainly like another option, but again, I am not sure any other option is actually "good" for the Klingon ideals.


Honor bound to protect every single Deferi, or honor bound to protect the Deferi race and government? That could be a fine and important distinction. And my point still stands - if we show the Breen hostages could work against us, we might invite even more abuse. Better sacrifice some weak Deferi now then lose the entire conflict because you showed the Breen your weakness.

This is the kind of distinction I just expect from Klingon and Federation takes on problem solving. Klingons should be far more willing to be ruthless and aggressive. Impress your enemy with your willpower and strength. The Federation won't do that if there are other options on the table. But these other options are preferred by the Feds because Feds and Klinks have different moral ideals.
I was not argueing right or wrong merely looking at it from a different angle.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
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# 20
09-14-2010, 06:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by castogere View Post
BTW Roach love the yellow beard
Arrgh!! thanks! It was an awesome movie. After watching though it begged the question, who would win in a fight between Captain Jack Sparrow and Captain Yellowbeard?
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