Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 31
09-22-2010, 11:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndarielHalo View Post
Here, you just fail because you arbitrarily, subtly insulted a Breen with a response action that was almost identical in tone and message to the right choice. It may as well have said "You suck" "You're awesome" "You're great" and picking "You're great" will fail you
I don't think arbitrarily means what you think it means. If it was truly arbitrary, then regardless of what response you pick you would have a 50/50 shot of success. Which is not the case.

Before the interrogation, your bridge officer calls you to tell you what NOT to say. Unless you completely ignored their advice it should have been fairly obvious what to say to Doctor Tran. Don't insult his honor, don't be a jerk. The provided answers were subtle enough to feel almost like an actual conversation I might have with Dr. Tran while still being obvious enough to not make it tedious. There are even a few dialogue options where there are multiple 'correct' answers.

I passed it my first time and found the whole mission a welcome diversion in problem solving.


Mission reward left me a little...blue however.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 32
09-23-2010, 12:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndarielHalo View Post
He only took one. Boy was I offended, in the Muslim style of offense; I offer you stuff and you only take a little?
I'd edit that if I were you... or expect this thread to be locked/deleted.

And I dont see your problem... restarting missions has always been the forfeit for failing them, so why should this be different?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 33
09-23-2010, 12:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravenstein View Post
Mission reward left me a little...blue however.
OHH! Tell me about it... what the hell do I need Snow Tubers for anyway when I have purrrfectly good Feline Supplements in abundance MEOW
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 34
09-23-2010, 10:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndarielHalo View Post
You insult me. Behaving like a smug jackass isn't helping anything or getting your point across.
I apologize for insulting you. It was a dumb act of frustration on my part.

I still however cannot call Cold Comfort the worst mission ever though...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 35
09-23-2010, 10:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordOfPit View Post
I apologize for insulting you. It was a dumb act of frustration on my part.

I still however cannot call Cold Comfort the worst mission ever though...
I would agree. The dialogue has evolved from the diplomacy missions. It's a tough line to walk because it leaves the question of what is right, wrong, dishonorable to be determined by the player and their deductions, rather than being the person who wrote the script and what they felt (and possibly the QA team) was right, wrong and dishonorable.

It's evolving, and that makes me happy.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 36
09-23-2010, 01:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tryulis View Post
I'd edit that if I were you... or expect this thread to be locked/deleted.

Why? It's a tradition in the Muslim religion that if someone shows interest in something of yours, you feel obliged to offer it to them as a gift, and if they refuse, they're insulting you.


Ironic bit: the Star Trek Enterprise season 1 episode 24 "Desert Crossing" features just this tradition, though involving aliens.



Quote:
It's a tough line to walk because it leaves the question of what is right, wrong, dishonorable to be determined by the player and their deductions

This Is Exactly What My Problem Is


When my Bridge Officer tells me that the Breen are easily offended by insults, I interpret this as to mean to AVOID any questions which question him, his nation, and his cause, or to portray them in a bad light or compare them to something bad.


HOWEVER, because I am not a mathematician, and I do not believe in absolutes right and wrong (unlike Janeway), I took careful notice when this Breen spoke, and when he said things like he opposed his commanding officer's questionable orders. Yet when I ask why he didn't question these orders, I get the regurgitated "You've insulted me!" response.

Does that make sense at all?


From a human standpoint, it does not, but from an alien standpoint, it COULD make sense...

...except NOTHING in the writing of the Breen, either from DS9 or this game, has portrayed the Breen in such an alien way that they can hold strong personal opinions, yet still be horribly insulted when you SUPPORT their opinion, because it comes into MINOR, MIIIINOR conflict with their discipline and training...


...which ALSO says little about their discipline and training that the Breen is ACTIVELY TALKING TO A HIGH RANKING ENEMY OFFICER ABOUT THEIR LACK OF TRUST IN THEIR COMMANDING OFFICER!!!!



This is where my frustration comes in that many people in this thread have completely misunderstood. Or maybe I just haven't been able to properly convey what I'm saying. If I approached the mission in a Captain Janeway sort of way of absolute black and white, I'm sure I would have easily finished it in one turn, but I wasn't EXPECTING this part of the mission, and I was operating the way I operate, me Admiral Andariel Halo of the United Federation of Planets, which is the WHOLE POINT of an RPG
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 37 Really?
09-26-2010, 08:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndarielHalo View Post
AS you should've read in my first post, it's never very clear just what will insult them, as I got failure from asking why this Breen allowed something, as well as for asking why they didn't question their orders, as well as from asking why they'd kill civilians.
Just felt like finding something to ***** about? Hmph Typical! As you walk into the cell block, It is made very clear, before you begin that portion of the mission segment, that you should avoid challenging the honor of the Breen prisoners . If you did not understand that or notice the obvious, auto prompted dialog explaining the importance of not insulting Breen honor, it is probably better to review your own part in the failure rather than dump blame on story parameters or requirements.

But then again, as is the case with many gamers out there, games are no fun unless there is a God Mode that circumvents the possibility of failure.

Grow up.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 38
09-26-2010, 01:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Missdirection
Just felt like finding something to ***** about? Hmph Typical! As you walk into the cell block, It is made very clear, before you begin that portion of the mission segment, that you should avoid challenging the honor of the Breen prisoners . If you did not understand that or notice the obvious, auto prompted dialog explaining the importance of not insulting Breen honor, it is probably better to review your own part in the failure rather than dump blame on story parameters or requirements.

But then again, as is the case with many gamers out there, games are no fun unless there is a God Mode that circumvents the possibility of failure.

Grow up.


Non sequitur; how do you "grow up" so to speak by NOT attempting to solve problems in a way that satisfies both parties following a logical course of action that is changed based upon the receipt of new information?


Is it childish to change your strategy based on new information in order to best achieve your goal as fairly as possible?


Is it the grown-up thing to do to ignore changes and stay on course towards an extreme point of view---sucking up to an ENEMY SOLDIER and digging your nose deeply up their backsides?



No thank you, Captain Janeway; I prefer to learn and act upon new information rather than keep my head down, barrelling forth into stupid. The only problem is that the Breen is a computer character and is pre-scripted only to accept ONE response, period, rather than adjusting flexibly.


To add further insult to injury; the daily mission where you save Deferi from Breen patrols is EXACTLY the sort of diplomacy I would have expected and wanted from this mission! Rather than pay them money, you can seek out other options, even if it's only ONE other option to succeed, with the third option leading to inevitable failure!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 39
09-27-2010, 01:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndarielHalo View Post
This Is Exactly What My Problem Is


When my Bridge Officer tells me that the Breen are easily offended by insults, I interpret this as to mean to AVOID any questions which question him, his nation, and his cause, or to portray them in a bad light or compare them to something bad.


HOWEVER, because I am not a mathematician, and I do not believe in absolutes right and wrong (unlike Janeway), I took careful notice when this Breen spoke, and when he said things like he opposed his commanding officer's questionable orders. Yet when I ask why he didn't question these orders, I get the regurgitated "You've insulted me!" response.

Does that make sense at all?


From a human standpoint, it does not, but from an alien standpoint, it COULD make sense...

...except NOTHING in the writing of the Breen, either from DS9 or this game, has portrayed the Breen in such an alien way that they can hold strong personal opinions, yet still be horribly insulted when you SUPPORT their opinion, because it comes into MINOR, MIIIINOR conflict with their discipline and training...


...which ALSO says little about their discipline and training that the Breen is ACTIVELY TALKING TO A HIGH RANKING ENEMY OFFICER ABOUT THEIR LACK OF TRUST IN THEIR COMMANDING OFFICER!!!!



This is where my frustration comes in that many people in this thread have completely misunderstood. Or maybe I just haven't been able to properly convey what I'm saying. If I approached the mission in a Captain Janeway sort of way of absolute black and white, I'm sure I would have easily finished it in one turn, but I wasn't EXPECTING this part of the mission, and I was operating the way I operate, me Admiral Andariel Halo of the United Federation of Planets, which is the WHOLE POINT of an RPG
I agree in full. I too felt that dialogue choices that were completely in keeping with the advice given by my officers were tagged for failure, and found it doubly irksome that the entire trivial medical clicking had to be repeated.

I also found myself wondering why our captains are actually practicing xenomedicine in a critical care scenario. At least it made sense for the captain I chose to slog through the weeklies as... not any of the others though.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 40
09-27-2010, 04:30 PM
I'd like to offer another problem with the mission - the part where you had to offer medical assistance to the Deferi. Common sense tells you if you were offering medical aid in that situation, you would have picked up the med kit and taken it with you to each injured patient.

Not here though. Talk to the patient, run to the counter for hypo spray, run back. Then just think if you chose the wrong hypo (and I'm sure some players did). Run back & forth AGAIN. lol. Then to add insult to injury (pun intended) you have to do the same thing for the second patient. REALLY?

I enjoyed the Episode. Looking forward to the next one. But why does Cryptic have to insult our intelligence that way. Two steps up, one step back. Practical game play shouldn't be a trade off for good content.
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:02 AM.