Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
Okay, I may be looking to much into this, nad this might not be the right place to post, but here I go. Why is it that certain consoles on my ship don't give me the proper bonuses.

To clarify, I fly around in the Sovereign Assault Cruiser, with my skills spec-ed into every cruiser along the way except the tier 5 one is in Star cruiser not Assault Cruiser becasue I just changed over. I put on an RCS accelerator which should have given me 28% bonus to my turn rate. it went from 10.7 to 11.6 instead of the ~13.9 it should have been.

And then I decide to ignore it, becasue if I wasn't going to get much out of it either way, I decided to put on a Neutronium Alloy which is suppose to give me a +15% bonus to both kinetic and energy damage. instead I ended up with only 13% bonus. (I understand that stacking these consoles is suppose to give me diminishing returns, but why is it giving me small returns for only placing one on?)

So my question is this, are federation cruisers suppose to loose out on the bonus of these consoles, as a from of balancing, or is this a glitch of some kind. I hardly think it's fair to limit the bonuses on cruisers for the feds when I have a fleet mate who is getting full bonuses to his Nehg'var cruiser. (With only 2 RCS accelerators, his turn rate is now a 22.)

can some one give me an answer?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
10-19-2010, 06:48 PM
For things like turn rate I believe the console bonuses are calculated pre-captain skill modifiers. IE, they're calculated from the base stat value.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
10-19-2010, 07:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic_One View Post
For things like turn rate I believe the console bonuses are calculated pre-captain skill modifiers. IE, they're calculated from the base stat value.
I thought so, but that still doesn't explain the alloy. But thanks
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
10-20-2010, 02:46 PM
As Cosmic said, the RCS console uses your base turn rate for its modification. Basically, if your ship needs the RCS console because it is too slow, that is just too bad. You get no worthwhile turn rate from it. If your ship is fast enough that it doesn't need the RCS console, then why put one on in the first place?

As for the armor, welcome to Cryptic math. Armor applies diminishing returns with the more armor modifiers you have, and the diminishing returns start with the FIRST armor modifier, not the second. So, just having one armor modifier (like that console) will not give you the full effect of that console. This applies to all ships.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
10-21-2010, 02:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakota2063 View Post
I thought so, but that still doesn't explain the alloy. But thanks
Armor Consoles now display a +X modifier without percentages because they never gave percentages. There is a specific formula on how to calculate resistance in which you insert the total modifier of all applicable consoles and get a percentage. This basically implements a diminishing return system that means you can never be 100 % immunte to anything no matter how much you stack.

The resistance formula is (IIRC): 1 - (100/(100 + Resist value)) (this gives a fractional value, to get a percentage multiply by 100 again.)


The display on your paper doll desribes the actual damage reduction your armor mods give you.
The armor mods value itself can best be seen as "virtual bonus to life expectancy if you were attacked only with weapons of this damage type". E.g. if you have +50 phaser resist and would normally last 10 seconds to phaser fire, you would now last 5 seconds. If you got +100 phaser resist, you would last 20 seconds.
If you on the other hand at a phaser resist of 50 %, you would take only half damage and thus last 20 seconds. If you got 100 % resist to phaser, you would take no damage at all from phasers. They want to avoid the latter.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
10-21-2010, 11:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
Armor Consoles now display a +X modifier without percentages because they never gave percentages. There is a specific formula on how to calculate resistance in which you insert the total modifier of all applicable consoles and get a percentage. This basically implements a diminishing return system that means you can never be 100 % immunte to anything no matter how much you stack.

The resistance formula is (IIRC): 1 - (100/(100 + Resist value)) (this gives a fractional value, to get a percentage multiply by 100 again.)


The display on your paper doll desribes the actual damage reduction your armor mods give you.
The armor mods value itself can best be seen as "virtual bonus to life expectancy if you were attacked only with weapons of this damage type". E.g. if you have +50 phaser resist and would normally last 10 seconds to phaser fire, you would now last 5 seconds. If you got +100 phaser resist, you would last 20 seconds.
If you on the other hand at a phaser resist of 50 %, you would take only half damage and thus last 20 seconds. If you got 100 % resist to phaser, you would take no damage at all from phasers. They want to avoid the latter.
Thanks. I was hoping it wasn't a bug, and if this is true for all ships, nice to know. I was always under the impressions, even with diminishing returns that they only counted after the first console. Glad to know it isn't a bug or a problem, it's a shame that the RCS aren't as effective on the fed cruisers as they are on the Klingon cruisers, but as I stated I really wasn't to concerned with them, other then to compare them with my fleet mate.

I still love my Assualt cruiser, and it works great for me, and even with the "overpowered" turn rate on the Klingon Nehg'var (my friend has it at 22 with only two RCS consoles) that he still can't take me out

I just wanted to find out if this was a bug and/orproblem to balance out fed cruisers. Glad to know it should apply to all ships

Thanks.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
10-21-2010, 11:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThomasGideon

As for the armor, welcome to Cryptic math. Armor applies diminishing returns with the more armor modifiers you have, and the diminishing returns start with the FIRST armor modifier, not the second. So, just having one armor modifier (like that console) will not give you the full effect of that console. This applies to all ships.
I still do not understand the logic behind the "premptive" diminishing returns concept.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
10-21-2010, 12:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roach View Post
I still do not understand the logic behind the "premptive" diminishing returns concept.
Neither do I. But honestly, I was more than a fair match for three of my fleet mates with only two EPS consoles and two empty slots. having that alloy is just a nice benefit.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
10-23-2010, 02:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roach View Post
I still do not understand the logic behind the "premptive" diminishing returns concept.
Stop thinking of it as damage resistance then. THink of it as a bonus modifier to your time to live. Then there is no diminshing returns. If you've got +50 in Time to Live Mods, you live 50 % longer to the same damage as without.

YOur consoles lose no effectiveness. They always add the same benefit to your ships life expectency.

The logic behind it not being straight resists is - if you could get 100 %; you would be immune to damage. You can't be killed. Resistance mechanics that work like that won't scale well.
Shield resistances do not "follow that logic". But - you are not invulnerable with 100 % shield resistance. Your shields are invulnerable, but your hull is still suspectible to the bleedthrough damage. That is probably why they did implement a different formula for that (and also because the only way to get shield resistances was to use powers with limited durations.)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
10-23-2010, 07:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
Stop thinking of it as damage resistance then. THink of it as a bonus modifier to your time to live. Then there is no diminshing returns. If you've got +50 in Time to Live Mods, you live 50 % longer to the same damage as without.

YOur consoles lose no effectiveness. They always add the same benefit to your ships life expectency.

The logic behind it not being straight resists is - if you could get 100 %; you would be immune to damage. You can't be killed. Resistance mechanics that work like that won't scale well.
Shield resistances do not "follow that logic". But - you are not invulnerable with 100 % shield resistance. Your shields are invulnerable, but your hull is still suspectible to the bleedthrough damage. That is probably why they did implement a different formula for that (and also because the only way to get shield resistances was to use powers with limited durations.)
What he means is the effectiveness of each being degraded on the first application, rather than being degraded on the second application onward.

I don't understand it either. I can work with it, but it is puzzling regardless.
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