Go Back   Star Trek Online > Feedback > PvP Gameplay
Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
10-20-2010, 10:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Felderburg View Post
These two quotes make it seem like there is a lot of EvE-style elements to this idea. Corps and Alliances ruling over PvP, and the golden rule "never fly a ship you can't afford to lose" are all well and good for EvE, but not necessarily STO. I like that you're trying to bring a better group mentality to PvP/STO in general, I really do, and an idea like this may even succeed at making fleets or teamwork a bigger part of the game. However, there will always be people more comfortable playing alone, and the way STO works right now it is a very friendly game for them. Obviously, encouraging teaming is a good thing, and people will always perform better as part of a team, and this idea does not exclude solo players, I just don't want it to go overly far in requiring a fleet to get pretty much the full experience.

As far as the whole "flying a ship you can't afford to lose" debate goes, I think that PvP-lootable items are a great idea. I do NOT think that having an EvE-style super harsh "ship blows up and you're out your life's savings" penalty is a good idea. One-death fights are fine, but let's not make that death a horribly excessive penalty. I think this argument has had its way on other parts of the forum, but that's my 2 cents.
One thing that PotBS does to help lessen harsh penalties to the expensive items, in that game being the ships themselves, is durability, You can die X number of times before the ship is gone, Perhaps equipment will have 3 durability, or you can take short cuts to reduce the cost in half and get one durability versions. Thus if you lose a fight, you could spend half the cost of the item and then apply it to 'refill' the durability. Still a financial loss, but more manageable? Meaningful PvP needs to have a risk.

I am not an EvE player, never liked the game. PotBS I was a Navy Officer for spain and france at points, and in both cases I had access to a Prince class First Rate... we are talking two-three months of grinding with a guilds help, to get it. I lost it once because a group mate decided his frigate was worth more then my first rate, and bailed on me allowed me to be stern camped by a bloody rat. The reason I never lost is, was not because I adopted the policy of never use a ship you can not afford to lose... I never took it out of port unless I knew I could rely on my group. If I lost it, I lost it. It was part of the thrill. At first I hated the idea of it, but honestly until you are on the other side... it is hard to explain how awesome that feeling is.

Taking a 4 million db ship, and running like hell to keep it out of some pirates hands and barely making it out because you did something they did not expect. Squaring off in a 10 man flotilla, in a first rate knowing that if the fight goes bad, it is going to go bad so you are determined to make sure it goes good... and that low feeling when you call a retreat, not because you think you can not possibly turn the fight around, but because you do not want to risk your ship.

Those are exactly the hard choices and experiences people keep asking for, but unless their is risk, those choices will always allude them because their is no reason for that choice.

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying make this PotBS in space... STO has so much more unique qualities it can bring to the table, but the emotional thrill of PvP where defeat causes you to actually lose something.. that can not be replaced. You fight harder, and you fight better... and you take fewer risks, but when you do take the risk and it pays off... no better feeling.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
10-20-2010, 06:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NemoSD
...the emotional thrill of PvP where defeat causes you to actually lose something.. that can not be replaced. You fight harder, and you fight better... and you take fewer risks, but when you do take the risk and it pays off... no better feeling.
Touché.

+10
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
10-20-2010, 08:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NemoSD
The point in regards to PvP that I was trying to get to was to make someone who wanted to do PvE and only PvE be able to completely ignore the PvP element, as at current this game has almost no PvP appeal. I was trying to make a system that would involve adding as few new systems as possible, but provide something to bring meaning to pvp. I can tell you right now I could care less about raids or dungeons, just not in it for me, however I would love to be leading a charge at the front of a fleet trying to defend my faction at all costs, etc...

The gear is represented through the equipment, but you don't get it for just PvPing... PvPing allows you to gain the resources to get it. I envision pvp as an entity on its own, which has meanings and consequences. Not a mindless grind to get gear.
Yes, I agree that the current PvP has no appeal and people are leaving left and right out of bordom of doing the same maps over and over.

And you can care less for Raid and Dungeon PvP, but there are PvPers out there that really do find it extremely fun to fight over things. Because right now the idea of Territoral PvP is nothing but an overglorified Cap and Hold, but if you had Dungeons or some other reason to keep control out of the hands of your opponent, you actually gain a reason to fight over - Denying the other side from keeping this power and becoming stronger.


Now with PvErs in the middle of PvP zones, it just invites trouble. Just look at Ker'rat and people wanting to kill Borg, and complain when people start PvPing them. If you are in a Warzone, you need to be prepared to fight. If PvE is needed, it should be on the outskirts of the actual PvP zones and not inside it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
10-21-2010, 03:44 PM
I recall that in Earth and Beyond, while not having PVP, it had a death penalty.

When your ship was destroyed (and no one could rez you) you were re-spawned at a star-base. In addition your ship items were damaged and had to be repaired for full effectiveness.

The Critical, Major and Minor damage system used with the higher difficulty setting could be used to replicate this.

If you are killed/destroyed you will get sent to a faction star-base with a list of damage. Then you would have to see the medic/engineer or use repair components to be repaired. Both of which cost EC.

Plus you are out of the fight and your team will suffer for it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
10-21-2010, 11:55 PM
Unfortunately that would become annoying over time.

In Everquest's PvP servers around 2003-4, they added a graveyard zone where you respawned and had rez effects placed on you for 15 minutes if killed in PvP as to prevent zerging back. I could see Territoral PvP having it where you respawn at the nearest Starbase and had to wait until "repairs" were done, but there is no physical damage for the player to actually repair.

So this would make PvPers more cautious and perhaps actually strategizing without the dependance on zerging back in returning to battle.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
10-22-2010, 06:10 AM
I liked PotBS a great deal, but there were many problems with the system. And for this game I wouldn't want to see new fancy gear, or open PvP with no level restrictions, because I think it would really annoy far more people than it would please.

A better model might be the Guild Wars Faction system, where Kurzicks and Luxons fight over 'control' of various towns.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
10-22-2010, 07:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Azurian View Post
Unfortunately that would become annoying over time.

In Everquest's PvP servers around 2003-4, they added a graveyard zone where you respawned and had rez effects placed on you for 15 minutes if killed in PvP as to prevent zerging back. I could see Territoral PvP having it where you respawn at the nearest Starbase and had to wait until "repairs" were done, but there is no physical damage for the player to actually repair.

So this would make PvPers more cautious and perhaps actually strategizing without the dependance on zerging back in returning to battle.
I do see your point. I wasn't thinking of a time limit set on you before returning but it would take a minute or 2 to make repairs (moving around the star-base, pulling components out of inventory and zoning back in/moving back to the battle) and that would be punishment enough.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
10-22-2010, 11:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Naevius
I liked PotBS a great deal, but there were many problems with the system. And for this game I wouldn't want to see new fancy gear, or open PvP with no level restrictions, because I think it would really annoy far more people than it would please.

A better model might be the Guild Wars Faction system, where Kurzicks and Luxons fight over 'control' of various towns.
What problems? If a new system is being designed, then now would be a time to raise the problems and see if in the context of this idea, they can be worked on?
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:17 AM.