Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
10-27-2010, 07:46 AM
Thanks for the post, dstahl. Sounds good to me.

I have a question about being in the creator, but it's not really concerning the rating and approval process, I suppose. Will we will have any of the chat functions available while in the Foundry? I'm not expecting local or such, but it would be nice if we could still communicate with friends/fleet members and our created channels.

I ask because I plan on spending a lot of time making episodes, but if some friends are planning on running a STF or other mission, it would be nice to join in and take a break from creating for a bit.

Also, any info on which characters and likenesses that aren't allowed would be nice. (I'm worried we won't be able to use the series' casts to try to recreate our favorite episodes, but I'm hoping I'm just being pessimistic, heh.)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
10-27-2010, 07:52 AM
Sounds exactly like I thought it would work. A perfectly reasonable process.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
10-27-2010, 07:53 AM
I'm still wondering about the sign up process to play test UGC. I can see it working for one of its purposes: to allow those that don't want to see inappropriate content to filter it out (after a long wait for missions to played 10 times or "X" many times). However, if anyone can sign up for play testing, there is no guarantee that kids (or whoever) that shouldn't be seeing a "Vulcan love slave" holodeck program won't see it.



Quote:
Originally Posted by DocDove
A suggestion, it makes SO much sense to link this to the holodeck on our ships (well, if we had holodecks on our ship). I mean this in two ways, first instead of selecting play/create on sign in, go to your ship (or anyone's ship, or heck, they are on space docks, too). and go to a holodeck. When you're inside you have the option to create program - by selecting it, you're shown the terms of agreement, and when agreed, you're loaded into the foundry side of things.

The other thing is it would be nice to be able to create content for play INSIDE holodecks. By that I mean you'ld be able to set a location as being in the holodeck on the ship, when it's entered you'd be transfered to the selected map (ie a simulation of the 'real' place).
There was a mention of going to the holodeck to play UGC... I'd have to find it. I just wish it would be called the Holodeck, since "Foundry" sounds kind of lame and non-Star Trek.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
10-27-2010, 08:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dstahl View Post
THIS IS ALL SUBJECT TO CHANGE

In order to avoid unnecessary speculation and bring some clarity to the review process - I'm starting this thread to show you the current plans on how Published Foundry Missions end up and in game.

Since this feature is still in development and the Foundry is in Beta (and not even at Closed Beta at time of first writing) all of this is SUBJECT TO CHANGE.

RATING PLAYER MADE CONTENT

Upon sign-in to STO, players have 2 options: Play or Create

If you select create, you are inside the toolset where you create, playtest and save your Foundry Projects.

Once you are happy with your Project, you can Publish it.

The Publishing process sends your Project to a queue where some AI code is added to your maps to ensure pathing functions.

Once your map is finished Publishing it is now available for Play Testing by anyone who has signed up to Play Test Foundry missions. These players are given a list of missions to play, or can look for specific missions, or can simply say play newest. As a Foundry author you can both create and play test missions.

The goals of play testing is to complete the mission. If the mission is completed, the reviewer is given the chance to rate the mission 1-5 stars (and possibly add comments).

Once a mission has been completed X number of times, it now qualifies to show up in Player Made Mission searches for any player in the game.

In order for any player to take a player made mission, they must go to the remote contact list, select the new Player Made Mission tab, search for the type of mission they want to play, and then select the mission to grant themselves.

Once they grant themselves the mission, it shows up in their mission list and it tells them where to go to start the mission. When any player completes a mission they are also given the option to rate the mission 1-5 stars (and possibly comment).

FLAGGING PLAYER MADE CONTENT

There will be a Foundry Terms of Use Doc that outlines rules that must be adhered to when making content. This will include CBS guidelines for what can and can't be used, as well as specific things that are deemed not-allowable and cause for Flagging.

While playing a Foundry made mission a player feels that the mission has violated the specific rules laid out, they can Flag the content. They will be asked to select the specific violation they are reporting and we will log their account info along with their complaint.

We will take flagging content very seriously as reporting missions in this manner can lead to a mission being pulled from the game until the author addresses the complaint.

This Flagging will not be used for things such as "I didn't like this mission" or "This sucks" or "This doesn't feel Star Trek to me"... but instead for things that violate IP license rules (example: using a character or likeness that is on the not allowed list), violating standard terms of service rules (example: advertising other products or services in your mission text), or attempting to circumvent foul language filters.

NOTES

Any player made mission can be played by anyone so long as the person playing it has signed into the Foundry and agreed they are willing to "review" missions that may or may not have crazy mind-altering badness in them (i.e. no one but the author knows what you are about to play - so be warned). Players can send other players the link to the mission. They can search for it. They can just randomly find it.

Whether or not a player made mission shows up for all players boils down to it being completed X number of times - NOT what have reviewers rated it.

Ratings are intended to give players an idea of what others who have completed the mission thought of it. They don't carry the I think this sucks therefore it will never see the light of day weight some think it will. It may impact some search filters (such as show me the highest rated content) but since you can search for missions by other filters, it is really designed as a tool to describe the perceived quality of the content. We've even talked about turning this on for Cryptic missions as well.

If a mission is Flagged for violating terms of use rules it is possible the mission will be pulled until the author addresses the issue and re-publishes. If the same mission is then again flagged for the same thing, there is a chance for further investigation and discipline (TBD). Likewise if we feel someone is abusing the Flag system and false-reporting issues, there is a chance of investigation and discipline on their end as well.
Hmmm yup, kinda what I figured
AND
It will be fine :-D

Thanks for the post
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
10-27-2010, 08:34 AM
I would suggest that the people who are testing the mission orginally dont even get to rate it, as that is not the purpose of the review per your comments. The purpose of the review is only to determine whether the mission contains inappropriate content or not. That being the case, what the person thinks of the mission really doesnt matter at that point. This will allow missions that make it past the review and go live to do so with a "fresh start", without any positive or negative ratings attatched to them.

A second suggestion would be that a mission not be removed from testing unless it receives 3 flags. For example, if the number of times it is required to be played before going live is 10, then it would seem reasonable that if the mission were REALLY inappropriate that it would be flagged as such at least 3 times if not more. This will prevent missions from getting removed from testing that ARENT really inappropriate, due to someone flagging them who doesnt know what their really supposed to be doing.

Other than these two things, I think the proposed system sounds pretty good and look forward to testing
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
10-27-2010, 08:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The.Grand.Nagus View Post
I would suggest that the people who are testing the mission orginally dont even get to rate it, as that is not the purpose of the review per your comments. The purpose of the review is only to determine whether the mission contains inappropriate content or not. That being the case, what the person thinks of the mission really doesnt matter at that point.

A second suggestion would be that a mission not be removed from testing unless it receives 3 flags. For example, if the number of times it is required to be played before going live is 10, then it would seem reasonable that if the mission were REALLY inappropriate that it would be flagged as such at least 3 times if not more. This will prevent missions from getting removed from testing that ARENT really inappropriate, due to someone flagging them who doesnt know what their really supposed to be doing.

Other than these two things, I think the proposed system sounds pretty good and look forward to testing
Well some flags are worse than others....trust me
As long as a Moderator can check the flag in a reasonable time...one flag might be the safe bet.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
10-27-2010, 08:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatherfungus View Post
Well some flags are worse than others....trust me
As long as a Moderator can check the flag in a reasonable time...one flag might be the safe bet.
That seems like a big "if", but the only real answer at this point is "we'll see". However, considering the fact that we're talking about the mission only being played by people who have signed the EULA at this point, I dont see why it should be removed with only 1 flag. If it REALLY is inappropriate, then it should get flagged more than once shouldnt it?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
10-27-2010, 09:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The.Grand.Nagus View Post
I would suggest that the people who are testing the mission orginally dont even get to rate it, as that is not the purpose of the review per your comments. The purpose of the review is only to determine whether the mission contains inappropriate content or not. That being the case, what the person thinks of the mission really doesnt matter at that point. This will allow missions that make it past the review and go live to do so with a "fresh start", without any positive or negative ratings attatched to them.
D
If some reviewer found your mission crap, what's to stop him from doing it again and rate it?
If he liked it, why should he have to play it again to rate it?

It would be a nonsense limitation.

Stop worrying that some AH will rate your mission low and flag you because he hates you. Worry about delivering a good mission within the guidelines (once you know them ) and the rest will sort itself out. Have some faith.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
10-27-2010, 09:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
If some reviewer found your mission crap, what's to stop him from doing it again and rate it?
If he liked it, why should he have to play it again to rate it?

It would be a nonsense limitation.

Stop worrying that some AH will rate your mission low and flag you because he hates you. Worry about delivering a good mission within the guidelines (once you know them ) and the rest will sort itself out. Have some faith.
It has nothing to do with someone being an "AH" as you so maturely put it. Per the Devs, the purpose of the review system is to weed out inappropriate content, not judge how "good" the mission is. However, by combining the two, it increases the chance of people, either intentionally or simply not knowing any better, combining the two into one opinion. Its better to simply avoid the issue when its not a necessary component of the system at that point.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
10-27-2010, 09:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Felderburg View Post
However, if anyone can sign up for play testing, there is no guarantee that kids (or whoever) that shouldn't be seeing a "Vulcan love slave" holodeck program won't see it.
There's nothing you can do about that, short of demanding that everyone who signs the ELUA for the Foundry provides proof of age or something of that nature.

Cryptic will cover their collective backsides by stating that anything seen in the Foundry may not be suitable to a T rated game and using the system is at your own risk.
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