Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 51
11-03-2010, 04:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TyBushman
get a /leach option for the game... if this person gets a /leach from all their team then they are not kicked from the current map... but are banned from PvP for an hour.
I'd be in favor of the /leach not allowing them to get credit for that particular match.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 52
11-03-2010, 10:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobTheYak
I'd be in favor of the /leach not allowing them to get credit for that particular match.
Indeed I would say that no credit for that particular match is fine... anything more could be abused. There are a handful of (in)famous people on both sides that could be victims of a multiple match or hour style ban.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 53
11-03-2010, 07:57 PM
Instead of major modification, I think we should leave the current system in place. A little tweaking might get us the situation we are looking for.

There is a Klingon mission called "Good Luck Charm". I am not sure if there is a mirror mission for Star Fleet but there would need to be. When you win 5 of any combination of Capture and Hold, Arena, and Warzones, you get the reward. If 2 emblems were added to this reward at the highest rank, I believe that it would accomplish most of the shared goals of those posting in this thread.

You can do sets of 3 exploration missions over and over for 1 emblem each. This would give PvP a similar reward. If you win 50% of your matches, you would have to be in 10 to get 2 emblems. A dominant team could do it in 5 but would still take longer than 6 exploration missions. The number of emblems was off the top of my head, it may be that it needs to be different to make this work well.

I think that this would increase the number of people doing pvp because there would be a desired reward even after finishing the daily. The increase would be in the segment of the population that we want in matches the most; those that want and try to win.

There may need to be a reporting system for Dead Weight, but I would try it without for a time. Peer pressure might get people moving. In addition, most people that might be willing to roll over if they get the same reward as the winner, don't like the idea of the other side getting something more/better.

Does anyone else like this?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 54
11-04-2010, 06:36 AM
I'll say again that I'm in favor of reducing rewards for just completing, and adding extra rewards for winning. I have read all the concerns about it, and I have to say, instead of thinking of ways how this doesn't work, think outside the box into ways this DOES work and can be made to work. I'll address some of them:

- The horrible pug syndrome arg: Believe it or not, a HUGE number of these are due to being populated by people who have NO INTEREST in PvP and just go through the bare minimum motions (if they bother at all) to get emblems. These groups will go down DRASTICALLY when only people who like and want to learn to PvP get rewards for it.

(Most regular PvPers know that groups during "emblem day" are HORRIBLE, and you can only get good matches when it isn't emblem day for that type of PvP)

- The nobody will fight Klingons arg:This can be solved by having a separate, possibly higher reward for winning against Klingons.

- The just give emblems arg: I'm sorry, but if you don't give rewards for an activity, then people will simply go afk during the time peroid, and then complain the game is boring and there is 'nothing to do' - it is a very funny and sad phenomenon. I can cite examples and even some white papers on this.

- an automated /leech system WILL get abused. It will force particularly unpopular people (say, STO's Space Jester, you know who he is) to only be able to do dailies with friends (provided he has any :p) because otherwise he'll be constantly griefed out of rewards. At the same time, a lot of AFKers might simply team together so they have more votes to veto any /leech. Lastly, sometimes there are people in C&H that have 0 damage and 0 heals and yet they're doing the most valuable of tasks: Capturing Stuff.

To some, it might seem like just getting rid of emblems is a good idea, but then we're left with the "noting to do" syndrome. Without a carrot, the fun of pvp isn't enough, just like doing a cool story mission without any loot isn't fun.

I honestly believe this proposal to shift the main carrot towards winning, while still providing something (a little) for trying to get better is the best approach. It should encourage new people to still try out pvp, but weed out those who will never put any effort into getting better.

Still, I'm willing to listen to better ideas, or ideally, ways to fine tune this idea to make it better.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 55
11-04-2010, 06:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by inktomi19d View Post
I think that right now carriers are horribly imbalanced against PUG teams, but after the new car smell wore off I've been seeing much more normal Klingon teams. Before carriers were buffed I was getting a bit over 50% wins PUGing, even counting the times my PUG was pitted against premades. Ignoring the carriers for a minute (because I'm pretty sure they are going to change again), I always go into FvK assuming my team is going to win -- it doesn't always work out that way, but it's frequent enough.

The people who can't handle FvK already don't queue for it. If you go into a match with no intention of winning, you're leeching anyway.

It's easy enough to win in PvP, and you can always queue for FvF, so I don't see a problem with making the emblems go out for wins only. If players also had the choice to get all their emblems through PvE, I think some of the weaker PvPers would leave, making the rest better able to find a few wins.


I PvP just for fun a lot, but I would really rather have something to work towards as well. I'm also the sort of player who would prefer not to have to PvE for gear. I'm actually kind of annoyed that PvE reward gear is usable in PvP, and if I want to gear up for PvP I need to do a crapload of PvE dailies.
so your saying that from Liutenant Commander 6 up til Rear Admiral 2, you didn't touch PvP because you had nothign to achieve?

what about the thrill of playing versus real intelligence, not a scripted attack run? the pursuit of being able to get your ship the top damager/healer consistently in the vast majority of your matches played?

what about PUGging and then making new acquaintances to play and match up in further teams?

there is plenty to achieve in PvP without the emblems/marks of honor. plus its not like Ker'rat is strictly for PvE players only. haven't you had a look at the zone chat during the time when the Yanks are online? the Ker'rat Zone chat is filled with smack talking Feds vs Klinks. some even go there for the sole purpose of fighting the opposition without the need to wait in queues for up to and over 20 minute intervals
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 56
11-04-2010, 06:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warem
I'll say again that I'm in favor of reducing rewards for just completing, and adding extra rewards for winning. I have read all the concerns about it, and I have to say, instead of thinking of ways how this doesn't work, think outside the box into ways this DOES work and can be made to work. I'll address some of them:

- The horrible pug syndrome arg: Believe it or not, a HUGE number of these are due to being populated by people who have NO INTEREST in PvP and just go through the bare minimum motions (if they bother at all) to get emblems. These groups will go down DRASTICALLY when only people who like and want to learn to PvP get rewards for it.

(Most regular PvPers know that groups during "emblem day" are HORRIBLE, and you can only get good matches when it isn't emblem day for that type of PvP)

- The nobody will fight Klingons arg:This can be solved by having a separate, possibly higher reward for winning against Klingons.

- The just give emblems arg: I'm sorry, but if you don't give rewards for an activity, then people will simply go afk during the time peroid, and then complain the game is boring and there is 'nothing to do' - it is a very funny and sad phenomenon. I can cite examples and even some white papers on this.

- an automated /leech system WILL get abused. It will force particularly unpopular people (say, STO's Space Jester, you know who he is) to only be able to do dailies with friends (provided he has any :p) because otherwise he'll be constantly griefed out of rewards. At the same time, a lot of AFKers might simply team together so they have more votes to veto any /leech. Lastly, sometimes there are people in C&H that have 0 damage and 0 heals and yet they're doing the most valuable of tasks: Capturing Stuff.

To some, it might seem like just getting rid of emblems is a good idea, but then we're left with the "noting to do" syndrome. Without a carrot, the fun of pvp isn't enough, just like doing a cool story mission without any loot isn't fun.

I honestly believe this proposal to shift the main carrot towards winning, while still providing something (a little) for trying to get better is the best approach. It should encourage new people to still try out pvp, but weed out those who will never put any effort into getting better.

Still, I'm willing to listen to better ideas, or ideally, ways to fine tune this idea to make it better.
i would refer you to my previous response, kind sir.

there is plenty to be achieved in PvP without emblems or marks of honor.

and we have so much to gain by reducing the marks of honor/emblems to being included in war zones and fleet actions instead of PvP matches. that way the emblem hunters can sit there and leach all they like, and it wont affect the people who take PvP with half a grain of salt
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 57
11-04-2010, 01:23 PM
Guys, you're losing focus here. This just looks like the majority of PUG teams I end up in- they start strong but then lose it at the crucial moment, everyone going on his/her own accord.

The goal here is to counter LEECHERS, not to make PvP some sort of elitist affair for "good PvPers"!!!

Don't make assumptions and don't go on with the "there are many bad players because of the emblems" thing, it's just offensive and disrespectful. The problem are the ones that get in, cloak and zip away, not the ones not being so good but still "trying" in some way.

So, leave the emblems as they are but add the /kick or /leech option.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 58
11-04-2010, 02:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by apt.pupil
i would refer you to my previous response, kind sir.

there is plenty to be achieved in PvP without emblems or marks of honor.

and we have so much to gain by reducing the marks of honor/emblems to being included in war zones and fleet actions instead of PvP matches. that way the emblem hunters can sit there and leach all they like, and it wont affect the people who take PvP with half a grain of salt
Most matches don't really seem to have these leeches, but they're certainly a problem often enough. Reducing the number of emblems will force me to do things other than pvp so I can gain the emblems. The more its reduced, the more PvE I'll have to look at. When I log on, I do my PvP dailies. I move through each of my toons, and I do PvE in between matches if the queues are slow. Many days, those three emblems per toon are all the emblems I get. When I'm done with dailies, PvP is the thing. Forcing me and others who love PvP to spend more time away from PvP is not the answer -- and as well as eliminating emblem hunters from PvP, it will probably deflate the queues of PvP enthusiasts, while they do more PvE dailies to win emblems.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 59
11-04-2010, 02:45 PM
Make something like the report Spammer Function for leechers and the problem might be solved. If someone gets reported let's say 15 times he is banned from all PvP games for 72 hours. After the 3rd or 4th time he might be banned from all PvP activities for 1month or even more. It would also be nice when we won't get in PvP games with people which we reported. So we would have some kind of PvP ignore list. But I doubt the queue system as it is now can handle this.

At the same time if someone misuses it he should be punished too.

Granted like with the Gold Spammers this won't help in the short term but might take several weeks before having some effect.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 60
11-04-2010, 03:16 PM
What I am not sure about is - couldn't we already use Community-Tickets to report AFK leechers?

It seems abusive behavior - they are ruining the fun of the players that are there to win, after all.
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