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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 31
11-09-2010, 02:51 PM
I am not sure that the Excelsior is actually stronger than the Sovereign in game.

The tactical console layout is the same Armor is the same too.

The only distinction is the BO layout.

Which of cource under current implementation, influences the role of ships, which in my opinion should not but this is part of another discussion.

That being said, I have been flying cruisers since launch as a Tac officer. And when I compare the Assault Cruiser to the Excelsior, I actually have more survivability with the Assault Cruiser, because of its BO layout.

I still prefer the Excelsior but that is because I am Tac, and I think that with the excelsior I can at least put to work my career's skills (Tactical focus) more efficiently than in the assault Cruiser..yet, I do explode more often in it, as it lacks the capacity to withstand as much of a pounding as the Assault Cruiser.

So in that sense, even if it has one higher level TAC BO Power, it loses much on defense, which do make it consistent with what the OP actually wants. To have the feeling that the Sovereign is a Superior ship compared to the Excelsior.

I think it is, because it can stay alive longer than the excelsior, with similar weapon slots consoles etc.

What the game may need here, is a leap forward, we are 30 years beyond Nemesis, the Federation at War with the Klingons, if this were to be the case in the series, don't you think the the superb corps of Federation ingenuity and Diversity would not have come up with new designs to adapt to their new enemy?

Do you think that Federation would not have developed new ships cruisers,escorts and carriers even that can use same heavy armament as Klingons or match their maneuverability...it is really a no brainer.

There is lea way I think to come up with new stuff in this future of Canon Trek.

So I really think that the next batch of ships for the 52-61 Ranking should be a new Line of next generation Ships that are designed to respond to the Klingon Threat.

(Not unlike how the federation developed a bunch of ships to deal with the Borg threat, the defiant being one of the first of that line).

And in a way the Excelsior Refit can actually be a transitional step in the mean time until R&D and Construction of new designs finishes.

In the grand scheme of things..it fit
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 32
11-09-2010, 02:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suraknar View Post
What the game may need here, is a leap forward, we are 30 years beyond Nemesis, the Federation at War with the Klingons, if this were to be the case in the series, don't you think the the superb corps of Federation ingenuity and Diversity would not have come up with new designs to adapt to their new enemy?
Um? I see plenty of new ship classes when I'm looking at the charts.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 33
11-10-2010, 01:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valias
Um? I see plenty of new ship classes when I'm looking at the charts.
Yup but these are but skins, I am talking some new ships with new capabilities to equalize the playing field a bit between the two sides, I am not speaking about different ships in appearance only.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 34
11-10-2010, 06:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valias
I suppose a certain "fear" to lose a ship as new and advanced as this would be justified. Aside from the impact on fleet morale it'd also include the danger of exposing valuable technological secrets to the enemy, should the Dominion have managed to recover parts of a wrecked Sovereign. It was state-of-the-art back then, after all.
But then, what's the point of building a new ship better designed for combat then previous ships of that class? You have to use it eventually.

It were certainly behind-the-scenes reasons. Most likely something like "we want to reserve the new ship for the movies to keep it special". The in-world reasons seem... weak. It might make more sense to send a Galaxy- or Excelsior-Cruisers for diplomatic missions.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 35
11-10-2010, 08:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suraknar View Post
Yup but these are but skins, I am talking some new ships with new capabilities to equalize the playing field a bit between the two sides, I am not speaking about different ships in appearance only.
I mean ships like the Oracle-class etc, which do have their own unique stats and capabilities.

By the way, did anyone notice the Oracle looks a bit like a successor to the Oberth? <3

Quote:
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
But then, what's the point of building a new ship better designed for combat then previous ships of that class? You have to use it eventually.
Definitively, but probably not "right away". Don't get me wrong, of course the true reason was something behind the scenes, I'm just saying that I can live with the in-universe "excuse".

It's a little like the explanation for why the BoP wings move, even though we all know that it was just done to look cool.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 36
11-10-2010, 03:14 PM
I would be supportive of an adjustment to the Assault and Star cruisers, rather than yet another Refit.

Maybe the Star Cruiser, as the more defensive of the cruisers, gets an additional boost to its defensive capabilities, and the Assault Cruiser, would be brought into line with the more tactical oriented Excelsior.

For example:

Assault Cruiser and Excelsior

Hull: 39000
Turn: 8 Deg / Sec
Weapons: 4/4
Consoles: 4 Eng / 2 Sci / 3 Tac
Officers:
  • Ens Engineer
  • Lt Engineer
  • Cmdr Engineer
  • Lt Cmdr Tactical
  • Lt Science

Here, the Assault Cruiser would have the exact same specs as the Excelsior. The only thing that would set the Excelsior apart is the Trans-Warp abilities and the skin of the ship, which is a fan favorite. This would still make it a viable C-Store commodity as people will buy the Excelsior because they like it, and it prevents penalizing the people who like the Sovereign Class.

Star Cruiser

Hull: 42000
Turn: 6 Deg / Sec
Weapons: 5/5
Consoles: 4 Eng / 3 Sci / 2 Tac
Officers:
  • Ens Engineer
  • Lt Engineer
  • Cmdr Engineer
  • Lt Cmdr Science
  • Lt Tactical

So, based on the Assault Cruiser / Excelsior being more tactically oriented, with a lesser hull and higher turn rate, as well as a Lt. Cmdr. Tactical officer, it would make sense to give the Star Cruiser a much more definitive Defense aspect. Hence, the increased hull, at the cost of keeping the turn rate where it is now, and ito offset the tactical advantage of the Assault Cruiser, the Star Cruiser would have an extra Weapon Slot fore and aft, as well as a Lt. Cmdr. Science Officer, to keep in line with the Lt Cmdr. Tactical Officer of the Assault Cruiser.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 37
11-10-2010, 03:30 PM
I haven't read the OP's full post but the title is one I agree with in full.

The most current ship in the Star Trek Universe as represented to the majority of the public should live up to it's intended expectations.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 38
11-13-2010, 03:41 AM
First off, I'm on board with this!

Secondly in First Contact, Geordy makes mention that the "Enterprise E is the most advanced starship." She was built specifically for combating the Borg as a battleship, but equipped to handle deep space exploration. All in all, her purpose was if she ever got stranded in a deep part of space like Voyager did and if she ever encounter serious trouble all she had to do was set phasers to "f*** you up!" and then go on her marry way. She's a battleship built to handle combat. Why do you think she was sent to the Romulan neutral zone? To be an explorer? H*** no! Starfleet sent their battleship in, in case the Romulans decided they wanted to pick a fight. What you nerds have to realize (I'm a nerd too so don't flip out on me) is that Starfleet's "We're explorers first" is really just a motto they say in good faith. They are ready for war and outfitted for battle, because they know that in reality, not everyone is going to buy into the Federation Utopia because it's impossible.

Now here are my recommendations for the Sovereign update. Universal BO slots. All of them. Let us choose what we want the ship to be by selecting what officer goes where. Another thing, design a special weapon that is exclusive to the Sovereign. Not anything like that stupid phaser Lance on that Gay-alaxy, but either a phaser or a torpedo that is unique to the ship. Some kind of heavy Quantum torpedo. Finally, let it carry ONE Federation fighter-craft. It doesn't have to become a carrier, but with two shuttle bays, I think it's reasonable to request a single fighter or maybe even two than it can deploy. Even just one of these things should do, but all three would make it more unique and divers which is what this game seems to promote when it comes to ship combat.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 39
11-13-2010, 01:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Conrad
She was built specifically for combating the Borg as a battleship
Um, sure, that's why her canon designation is "Explorer Type-2"...

The Sovereign is not a "battleship", it's a successor to the Galaxy. The Federation does not believe in the concept of battleships.

In fact, I think the STO designation of "Assault Cruiser" is misleading a lot of people due to the aggressive tone of its name. Would've been better if it had been switched with the "Star Cruiser".
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 40
11-13-2010, 10:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valias
Um, sure, that's why her canon designation is "Explorer Type-2"...
As I stated, Starfleet's "We're explores first" is a facade. The only reason the Federation establishes a Utopia is because the more allies the more powerful the empire- I mean organization. The Federation doesn't have this sense of moral responsibility to make peace with everyone. Though they hold true to certain values, they only bring people into the Federation if it's a benefit to the society. It's a lot easier to convince people to join your cause if you promote ideals of peace and that unity is best for both of us. Do you really think that if a world was discovered containing rich amounts of Dilithium would not be approached by the Federation if it was a pre-warp society? H*** no! The Federation would hang the Prime Directive and jump at getting the minerals as soon as possible. And what about a planet that has nothing to offer to the Federation? Would they be accepted just cause they want to join the club? Nope. If anything, they would get the Puerto Rico treatment where they'll let their people serve in the military and use the planet as a strategic point for a Starbase, but they would not get official Federation enrollment like Puerto Rico doesn't get to be a State.

All in all my point is, Starfleet's "Seek new life and new civilizations" is actually a nicer way of saying "Your biological and technological distinctiveness will be added to our own." That's right, the Federation isn't much different than the Borg. So yes, they have assault ships and the Sovereign is a Battleship. So too is the Galaxy. It was retrofitted for Battleship use right after "Best of Both Worlds." If the Federation truly was a force for peace, why do they need to arm their ships?
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