Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 81
11-11-2010, 02:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nerubian_Assasin1
Its not just an edge, its a complete miles of difference. When I played kawdek i didnt even feel threatened even with my crap build/items...if i was in a fed ship, i wouldve gotten eaten.
Like Serp said, there is many factors that coudlve contributed to a match being 1 sided. And a good percentage in PvP is all about experience and teamwork.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 82
11-11-2010, 03:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Commodore_Stipe
Just wanted to share this for all of those who claim the Klingons are overpowered and the Feds need a carrier, the klinks need nerfed or some other drival.

20 minutes ago I was in 5 on 5 arena match. 4 Fed cruisers and a science vessel vs a carrier, 1 BOP, 3 cruiser variants. 45 minute match. We (Feds) were down 7 to 4 then regrouped and turned it around. At one point we actually forced the Klingons to retreat. In the waning minutes of the match we were down 10 to 13, then 12 to 14, and then we some tactics and three kills at once we won 15 to 14. The best match I have ever played. What won it? Teamwork. The Klingons are powerfull yes but not overpowered. The right group working together can win.

Don't change anything. I am not a world class Pvper but I had fun and will continue to do so. Leave it alone.
This is exactly what ive been saying for ages and ages... The Feds can win if they use Teamwork and have the right mix of ships, Skills.... or atleast give us Klingons a hell of a fight !

The one tactic Feds have to learn that Fails the most is the 1 vs 5/10... ive seen some Klingons just throw their life away aswell, but 90% of the time its the Feds...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 83
11-11-2010, 05:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pacifica
This is exactly what ive been saying for ages and ages... The Feds can win if they use Teamwork and have the right mix of ships, Skills.... or at least give us Klingons a hell of a fight !

The one tactic Feds have to learn that Fails the most is the 1 vs 5/10... I've seen some Klingons just throw their life away as well, but 90% of the time its the Feds... (edited for grammar & spelling)
I've said it before, and I'll say it again..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katic
War, and the accompanied arms race, is always a battle between technology and tactics, as new technology comes available, new tactics must be utilized to defeat it.

When Germany perfected the Submarine, the Allies developed the Wolf Pack, when the Germans started lying in wait rather than actively hunt, we invented the depth charge.

Technology -> Tactic -> Technology -> Tactic -> Technology..
All new abilities added to the game are tested extensively, first by the devs themselves on their own server, then by actual players on the Tribble Test Shard.

If it gets pushed to the live game on the Holodeck, that's a pretty good sign it's been mostly balanced vs existing abilities in the game, if you think it's unbalanced, there's a few things you should try before calling out for a Nerf.

Try a new set of items, if you normally play with armor layers in your engineering slots, and your shields are being eaten, try equipping a Shield Emitter Amplifier, or a Field Emitter, or better yet, both. Replace your shields, maybe that old trusty Resilient Shield Array Mk X [Reg] isn't cutting it anymore, maybe try a Covariant Shield Array Mk X [Cap]x2? (they're available cheap due to crafting)

What about your Boff abilities? Are your boffs specced for combat vs the Breen? Polarize Hull? Science Team? Directed Energy Modulation? Attack Pattern Omega? Try retraining them to concentrate on shield heals and buffs. Emergency Power to Shields, Reverse Shield Polarity, keep Science Team.

Could it be your favored method of attack? Are you trying to Alpha strike in a Science vessel? Tank in an Escort? De-buff & hold with a Cruiser? There are builds to do each (mostly) successfully, but are you using one of those few effective builds to do so?

Try changing yourself, before calling for changes to the game just because you aren't being successful.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 84
11-11-2010, 05:34 AM
I will give away a Trade Secret here:

How to Kill a carrier:

Step 1 isolate it

Step 2 Kill its pets the carrier itself can't generate enough damage to hurt you (usually)

Step 3 Kill carrier

Step 4 finish off rest of Klingons

Step 5 Go home

Now steps 1 and 2 can be a littel difficult to pull off. It requires coordination from the Feds. Bascially 3 team members have to engage and draw off the other 4 klingson (and survive for a while). Two feds then need to engage the carrier. The first step is of cousre get rid of the pets. How do I know this works? Simple, over the last week my son and I (who play togehter a lot) have practiced this a lot. So far in 8 matches we have taken down 9 carriers. Now this becomes a lot harder to near impossible with more than 1 carrier.

The key to taking out a carrier is getting rid of th pests. Fighters go down quickly and BOP pets have a 2 min regen time. Take them out fast and you got a couple of minutes free to focus on the carrier.

Want a good secret folks? Want to know how to kill a carrier? Play one. Like I said earlier I have General/Admiral on both sides. My klngon side is an Orinon science officer who flies a carrier.

Coordination and teamwork trumps build and equipment any day.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 85
11-11-2010, 05:39 AM
The KDF may have advantages in thier faction as put in place by the Genre of Star Trek, but these advantages can be overcome by a well designed fed team or even a fed PuG that is experienced enough to know what to do to nullify the KDF advanatge of cloaking, carriers, etc and the KDF is not overpowered in vessel design by any means and the feds have the tools in thier ship selection to achieve victory.

Besides why are people even upset that the faction designated to be pvp-oriented first happens to be good at pvp? If it was just the ships alone, even I would be able to walk through pvp unscathed.


Kirk wouldn't ***** and whine about his enemies being OP, he would just get the job done and kiss the girl after the battle was over. How far the federation has fallen.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 86
11-11-2010, 05:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katic View Post
I've said it before, and I'll say it again..



All new abilities added to the game are tested extensively, first by the devs themselves on their own server, then by actual players on the Tribble Test Shard.

If it gets pushed to the live game on the Holodeck, that's a pretty good sign it's been mostly balanced vs existing abilities in the game, if you think it's unbalanced, there's a few things you should try before calling out for a Nerf.

Try a new set of items, if you normally play with armor layers in your engineering slots, and your shields are being eaten, try equipping a Shield Emitter Amplifier, or a Field Emitter, or better yet, both. Replace your shields, maybe that old trusty Resilient Shield Array Mk X [Reg] isn't cutting it anymore, maybe try a Covariant Shield Array Mk X [Cap]x2? (they're available cheap due to crafting)

What about your Boff abilities? Are your boffs specced for combat vs the Breen? Polarize Hull? Science Team? Directed Energy Modulation? Attack Pattern Omega? Try retraining them to concentrate on shield heals and buffs. Emergency Power to Shields, Reverse Shield Polarity, keep Science Team.

Could it be your favored method of attack? Are you trying to Alpha strike in a Science vessel? Tank in an Escort? De-buff & hold with a Cruiser? There are builds to do each (mostly) successfully, but are you using one of those few effective builds to do so?

Try changing yourself, before calling for changes to the game just because you aren't being successful.
This is on the surface very reasonable, sound, helpful advice. And yes all of the suggestions you make should be tried. But clearly with the overwhelming number of posts that cover the forums regarding the PvP experience, many must have made these attempts themselves. Other intelligent people must have considered these options themselves. But an increasing number of new posters are continuing to come forward and wave their hands to draw attention to what is clearly a problem. Even a number of Klingon players have done so.

There is no doubt some testing went into the areas of the game that have found there way to the holodeck. But if the intent was to appease from the onset, who knows what things were overlooked or simply ignored.
And as the number of bug reports that I personally find myself having to write each day proves, just because it's in the game, doesn't mean it works.

It's not all gloom and doom, but there is a problem that needs to be addressed.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 87
11-11-2010, 05:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SapphicZoid
But clearly with the overwhelming number of posts that cover the forums regarding the PvP experience, many must have made these attempts themselves. Other intelligent people must have considered these options themselves.
I doubt that, else I would not still see posts about how people tried to fight a carrier just like any other ship, and else I would not still see people making the same mistakes in PvP over and over again (such as flying off alone).

On that note it does seem as if Starfleet is slowly getting better these days, either because of accumulated experience having reached a comparative level, or because of already experienced Klinks rolling a Fed. Probably due to a mix of both. In any case I get beaten a lot more than I used to, KDF-side. Regardless of whether a carrier is present or not.

I rather assume that the people whining on the forums are a minority that either refuses to adapt to new tactics, who are incapable of working as a team, or who just got pwned so badly they do not try again for weeks, at which point they get pwned again. And due to them not playing enough, they do not learn and cannot get better. Vicious cycle.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 88
11-11-2010, 07:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SapphicZoid
This is on the surface very reasonable, sound, helpful advice. And yes all of the suggestions you make should be tried. But clearly with the overwhelming number of posts that cover the forums regarding the PvP experience, many must have made these attempts themselves. Other intelligent people must have considered these options themselves. But an increasing number of new posters are continuing to come forward and wave their hands to draw attention to what is clearly a problem. Even a number of Klingon players have done so.

There is no doubt some testing went into the areas of the game that have found there way to the holodeck. But if the intent was to appease from the onset, who knows what things were overlooked or simply ignored.
And as the number of bug reports that I personally find myself having to write each day proves, just because it's in the game, doesn't mean it works.

It's not all gloom and doom, but there is a problem that needs to be addressed.
Of course, when everything is going well for the Klingons, they tend to ignore it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 89
11-11-2010, 08:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serpieri View Post
You are aware of the Fed's Ship advantages right? The Defiant R is more nimble then a Raptor, the Federation is the only faction with a Cruiser that has access to LT. Com Slot, and let's not forget about the Galaxy R and Inrepid R. The federation also has access two ships that are considered to be the best tanks/healers in the game.
Ok Lets address this first paragraph here, The Defiant R will get stomped by a well setup BOP. The Intrepid R can tank decently and so will a Galaxy R but they can easily be countered with a well setup sci carrier/eng or eng Negh'Var or umm a BOP even?Refer to below screen shot. yeah, heres another one of those SSs that you hate to see but have to face it:
http://screenshot.xfire.com/s/106295100-4.jpg

The guy named imirgeeth on the klink side healed his BOP to close to 1million heals. I am victor in that screen shot, i have with me whats supposed to be the best hull tanker the feds have yet he almost matches me in a BOP. Some how this is not convincing me that we have have the best tanks/healers in the space game. If imirgeeth had gone up against a good well setup defiant R, it would loose 9/10 because no way in hell is a defiant R going to heal it self for that much, 940+ k heals is insane for an escort

Quote:
Originally Posted by Serpieri View Post
Screen shots are just screen shots. They do not show group makeup, they do not show gear makeup, they do not show player skill, they do not show what took place, You can't even tell from who was the most dangerous in the fight. General rule of thumb it isn't the person that had the most DPS or healing. Anybody can blast shields all day but it means nothing if you can't kill them.
Only person here talking about Mythos is you, and that is easily seen since you believe the B'rel is some kind of super ship. I love how every change in the game is followed by Feds claiming a new I WIN BUTTON. It's a shame really, if Feds only took the time and energy that it takes to create these posts they'd have at least something to show for it.
To me its more than just a SS, shows in a PUG situation even if you get 5 players on the fed side who show good team work and focus fire and tactics it is still almost an 85 percent to 90 percent win chance for the klinks.

Of course attack me cuz you feel that I have no place to call out the advantages as i seen them. Like i said i have played 100s of pvp games in almost all the fed ships available, tactics is one thing but when you are outnumbered, out flanked and out gunned there is nothing you can do to win, you can only just prolong the game thats all. 5 fed ships vs 5 klink ships with the assitance of a billion pets..some how this does not ring very fair to me. Considering a BOP can heal close to 1million heals if setup right or if that game had gone on longer in the SS we would have see this BOP heal over 1million heals. But let me guess, you dont see anything wrong with the fact that a klink escort can out heal fed cruisres.

Also the Negh'var is just as tanky as a Galaxy R but has better manuverability than a galaxy R.

Again point me in the direction of these uber fed pre-mades that I cant seem to find anywhere. I sure would love to talk to them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serpieri View Post
You know whatís even more interesting; if Klingons are the GODís you think they are? Why is the faction declining? After all, people tend to flock to what they consider to be the strongest side? It canít be because of the lack of PVE since it has no bearing on PVP. Could it be because the Federation Ships are superior and offer more options overall. Could it be because they have more customization? But what does that have to do with PVP? Could it be that most people have realized that the so called I WIN buttons were over hyped? After all the Feds now have cloaks and BOís, yet they continue to lose. Itís not like most Fed pugs just wait at the spawn point or leave each other behind or fail to assist each other. Could it be because itís much easier to keep a butt load of beams on a target then cannons? Makes you think doesnít it?
I have heard this argument too many times...why did they all leave? well when I am at quonos system i have no problem seeing quite a few player ships around me at the point im on, when i enter PvP arenas i have seen most of the time the count of klinks are higher than the count of players entering PvP space arenas on the fed side. I can prove this as well with screen shots but i know already you will just dismiss it.

Also klinks lack content, there are some players who leave the faction just cuz of content, thats not my problem, its their preference. But on the whole PvP situations, Klinks trump the feds in the way the ships are laid out. If this was any where close to cannon which it is obviously not, the federation would have been wiped out long time ago. LIke i said when im in my BOP i hardly feel threatened its like i can fly cricles around any fed escort or cruiser, I can heal tons more than a fed escort can, i can mount skills such as Tykens 3/ Gravity well 3/ST3/RSP3/HE3/ENG3/TSS3 or EPTS 3 on a BOP depending on which skill i want to go with and what kinda setup I am gearing towards. I cannot mount any of the above debuff/ heal skills mentioned in a fed escort.

Your argument of cannons only carry so much weight, cuz your assming that the Negh'vars or Vorchas or carriers cant mount the beams or wont mount beams? Trust me I have seen enough Negh'Vars and Carriers with beams or some carrier pilots are just choosing turret boats as another option. The BOPs dont need beams but sure they can do it too if want to, cannon/beam combo if you want to but thats just a waste of skill points, ill just stick with cannons on a BOP with that beautiful turn rate.

Funny you say that about fed pugs, cuz some of the pugs infact 7/10 the pugs i play in all seem to stick togeather now except for the odd emblem grinder or noob who does not want to be part of the team. Since i play fed so much i know this all to well.

Add to all of this you klinks get a ship that can cloak fire amongs all the carrier bred chaos with the pets and sci officers calling in photonic fleets...yes it is an I WIN button further simplified. Must be nice to have a cloak torpedo boat ready to fire with THY after your carriers /BOPs /Negh'Vars have ripped apart fed shields and the feds are desperately trying to fight 50+ targets.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 90
11-11-2010, 09:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nerubian_Assasin1
words...screenshot...more words. Too long to quote..
If that single BoP is what won that game for KDF, then there is something very very wrong with that picture. Can you guess what it is?
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