Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 81
11-29-2010, 01:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mistformsquirrel
@Stormshade -

Firstly - I'm really glad to see that kind of post from someone official. For the vast majority of people, those guidelines are absolutely perfect. After all, few of us are creative professionals, and only a small margin more are aspiring to be, so outside of that narrow band, feedback can be... painful, especially if in-artfully worded.

That said...

What if I - the author of said mission - were to specifically create a thread for, and ask for, critiques on a given mission? I mean obviously I still don't want someone flaming me; flaming is out of bounds on the forum anyway; but if I specifically say "I want your honest opinion, not to mention if you'd kindly let me know of any spelling errors or whatnot", would I be able to do that?

It's not that in-game feedback is necessarily bad, but from my experiences doing missions for the Architect system in COH, I found my most valuable feedback tended to come via the forums. The other players there were (with exceptions of course) generally mature and willing to actually discuss things they liked, didn't like - and even ask questions about what I intended with particular elements. Not to mention it was just plain immensely useful to have all my feedback in one thread, so I could alt-tab back and forth between the thread and working on the mission.

It was also valuable for me in that - when you get people talking to each other about your work, you can see a bit better where people are coming from, why they're saying what they're saying, and that helps me weight opinions so that I'm not say... trying to jump through hoops to please someone who's 180 degrees from my target demographic.

I guess to sum up the entire post into a sentence -

If the author asks for people to pass along that kind of info in a forum thread devoted to said episode, can they do it without getting into trouble?
i dont see any reason why not. stormys post was basically saying give your feedback in a respectful way. you can still point out if there are spelling errors just be tactful about it. my spelling is terrible. even with spell checkers, i want people to tell me where i go wrong.
im pretty sure you can create a thread asking for opinions on your ep as much as you like.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 82
11-29-2010, 01:49 PM
i have to agree with stormshade as for peoples critisism of thier content on the foundry missions. before i seen this post and another one made by either him or another cryptic guy i was thinking that these forums were going to turn into a big bashing frenzy and more or less hate and insulting forums. stormshade should recruit forums mods to help with the feed back. my opinion.

on a different topic the foundry are the tools for creating characters going to open up? for example making an alien you are very limited in the way you design him, i heard that in champions online your character creation is awesome. so i was wondering if cryptic can open it up for us also. for instance you cant make a character have a beek. or a nose on top of his head. that is unique and what i feel would be awesome. im not sure you can do that in c/o but i hear there system is really cool.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 83
11-29-2010, 02:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by captain_quack
on a different topic the foundry are the tools for creating characters going to open up? for example making an alien you are very limited in the way you design him, i heard that in champions online your character creation is awesome. so i was wondering if cryptic can open it up for us also. for instance you cant make a character have a beek. or a nose on top of his head. that is unique and what i feel would be awesome. im not sure you can do that in c/o but i hear there system is really cool.
As far as I know, it'll be the same as the current alien creator you use to make a new Alien species character. Check the FAQ here: http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...d.php?t=185711 It might have that info, tauneutrino has posted a lot in it.

Edit: forgot to actually link it
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 84
11-29-2010, 02:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Felderburg View Post
As far as I know, it'll be the same as the current alien creator you use to make a new Alien species character. Check the FAQ here: It might have that info, tauneutrino has posted a lot in it.
thank you i have found the thread at http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...d.php?t=185711 it is very informative by tauneutrino and stormshade, however i dont see my question or answer. i see alot about powers and maps. i even see things about different species or races, i dont want to alter cryptics content i want the tools to open up. i know it is possible. so my question is are there any plans on doing it?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 85
11-29-2010, 03:07 PM
Anyone who asks for reviews should be ready for people to give honest input. I'm more interested if the authors will take the input people give them and acutally make changes based on it.

I fully expect folks to ask for input, get said input then ignore it completely because they think everyone else is wrong or "didn't get it".
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 86 Structured input reviews?
11-29-2010, 04:15 PM
I would respectfully submit that it may be too much to ask to be thoroughly sensitive in the wording of our reviews. That's not to say I have any interest in making other people feel bad. But I think there's a differnce between being a weiner/troll who excoriates an author who spent hours on a mission and being indelicate in expressing one's honest opinion. I will try to keep this in mind both as a content creator and as a reviewer. I can take what I dish out, I swear!

That said, perhaps one way to sidestep this problem might be to allow for mission rankings based on specific criteria. For example a 1-10 grade for originality, another for pacing, another for adherence to canon, a grade for "I had a good time playing this mission" and perhaps one for grammar and spelling. Then allow for a line or two at the bottom for comments.

All this data can be collated and made available to the content creator as feedback. The rankings (and maybe the comments?) would then be viewable by anyone else contemplating doing that mission.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 87
11-29-2010, 04:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by StormShade
Of course. This will be anonymous just as reporting a player for inappropriate behavior is anonymous. We'll still know who did it, but other users will not be able to see it.



I know it was explained by another helpful poster. It bears repeating though.

Don't be a jerk.



I'm not preventing these kinds of threads at all. I am asking that people show respect for the time and effort that Foundry Users will be putting in to their work.

This means, quite simply, that I don't want to see posts leaving feedback that simply says, "Your mission sucks. Learn to spell."

I don't care if it says those exact words, or if it's implied by a laundry list of complaints. Feedback given needs to be respectful. Publicly denouncing someone's work, asked for or not, is not cool.

If you have negative feedback, leave it in a positive manner.

"Your mob placement could use a little help, PM me if you'd like more info," followed by a PM that says, "You need to space out your encounters a little more. They're too close and it's too easy for a player to be overwhelmed at zone in by mob aggro." is about 10 times less harsh than this:

"Your mission is nothing more than a way for you to grief unsuspecting players looking for a good mission, and you should be banned from creating new projects until you learn to spread out your encounters."

They both offer feedback regarding the same issue. They both identify a problem, and even offer assistance. One of them is rude, the other is not.

This is what I'm making very clear right now. You can leave negative feedback, and do so in a way that does not publicly insult the author.

This is what needs to happen. It needs to happen to encourage people to use the tools, and to continue using them.

Thanks,

Stormshade
I respectfully disagree with your stance on this matter. I think we should be free to offer factual, non-abrasive feedback, SPECIALLY if requested, without having to sugar-coat it because someone might get offended.

If someone specifically asks "Please tell me what you think", and I find these issues, I see no problem with simply replying:

Found these problems:

- In dialog X section Y, the meaning of what the NPC is trying to say is confusing. There are grammar errors which compound this. Rephrasing the paragraph would probably help a lot.

- Groups of enemies in battle Y are too close together, it doesn't make sense that they wouldn't see you shooting their friends and come to their aid, instead of sitting patiently for you to finish shooting their friends.

- No, Medusae do not turn people to stone in trek cannon. Similar name, different creature. (May want to make it perfectly clear this is another type of creature if you insist on using the same name for such a stone-making creature, and couldn't hurt to explain how they do it)

- I found the color scheme a little too jarring, although that may be intended.

Liked:

- Overall storyline

- Pacing and length

So, for the record, if you choose to enforce "PC" behaviour(*), which is nothing more than a sophisticated and dangerous form of censorship and oppression that attacks the heart of our culture, I will choose to not participate at all. I hope I won't be the only one.

(*) (Ie finding fault with the above factual review because it could possibly upset someone that problems were found in their creation and it just didn't have enough sugar coating)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 88
11-29-2010, 06:23 PM
KISS Feedback Method:

1. Praise in public
2. Critique in private (or your own forums)
3. Profit!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 89
11-29-2010, 06:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by devast8tor View Post
KISS Feedback Method:

1. Praise in public
2. Critique in private (or your own forums)
3. Profit!
Step 3 is ?????
Step 4 is Profit

However, feedback is definitely a must.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 90
11-29-2010, 06:59 PM
I'm not saying you can't critique in public. I am asking everyone to be very careful of how you criticize people in public.

If you're overly critical of someone on the forums right now, if I see it, you get a warning at the very least. Most likely, you'll get an infraction.


Those same rules will apply to leaving feedback on missions. I'm not changing the rules here. I'm simply reminding people of them, and pointing out ways to politely offer your criticism.

Thanks,

Stormshade
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