Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1021
12-02-2010, 12:52 PM
OMG Gimme this now

Tech Demo for Nexus 2, goto 2min mark for epic space battles
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhZQEvg1V0Y
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1022
12-02-2010, 03:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chanfron View Post
OMG Gimme this now

Tech Demo for Nexus 2, goto 2min mark for epic space battles
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhZQEvg1V0Y
Oh, nice. But that one wasn't actually released, and that was four years ago, so I doubt we're going to see it at this point.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1023
12-03-2010, 04:47 AM
I know ,first time I had seen that trailer and it just looks so good, pity it never got any further.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1024
12-05-2010, 01:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valias
No, they're not. There is a difference between characters who are "everyday heroes" and exotic exceptions. I touched upon that topic recently here.
What's an "everyday hero"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valias
All characters are unique, but not all characters are special in a way that makes them stand out from everything else. I guess it boils down to gameplay preferences if you want such characters on your table or not - I don't, so I find the rules adequate. YMMV.
That depends on the setting but often heros are special because of the fact that they are adventuring in a group of mixed species alone. And look at the 40k RPGs. Charakters in Dark Heresy are people who were noticed and employed by an Inquisitor. An Inquisitor doesn't have much use for a generic guardsman. He can commandeer a whole regiment just to provide a snack for Tyranids until the Space Marines arrive. So in some way DH character should be special. Same for Rogue Trader and triple that for Deathwatch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valias
As for your special case: The way you have approached the realization of your concept it sounds as if you basically tried to build a barbarian scientist. That does not work. And it shouldn't.
Eh, nope. Barbarian scientist is a bad expression for that. More of a Space Marine librarian without the Space Marine and psyker parts or a monk of St Leibowitz.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valias
I would have suggested a choice between these two options:
Both use Elite Advances which are simply a half-baked patch to cover up the lack of flexibility of the system. Even AD&D did better. And that says a lot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valias
So you can either play a scholar with some warrior skills or a warrior with some scholar skills. You can not play Doctor Conan, but I refuse to see what's wrong with that. :p
I don't want Doctor Conan, just the chance to be able to choose the proportions of my skills. Both of the builds you're proposed have one class in which the character is good and one in which he has barely skills to speak of. There's no way to make him mediocre in both roles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valias
I still don't see why that Arbitrator should suddenly be able to learn everything the Rogue picked up over decades in his unique lifestyle.
Because the rogue didn't really pick it up over decades. He picked it up when he spent xp on it. You have no problem with a Fighter in TDE spending XP to learn sneaking and lockpicking (without any pricing disadvantages) why not in DH?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Valias
An Arbitrator going rogue will, with time, be able to pick up some new skills, but this can easily be realized by Elite Advances and should never extend to the Rogue's entire arsenal.
Yes, he will pick them up with time (meaning adventures he collects xp in while acting like a rogue and spending them on the appropriate skills).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valias
An Ex-Arbitrator is still an Arbitrator, and he will find it rather difficult to fit in with the other side of the law, given that it stands against everything he learned. You can't just "switch off" years of indoctrination, habit and experience (which will hinder learning new stuff) just because you as a player think Rogue skills would come in handy and you absolutely need them all.
An arbitrator who has fallen to chaos is most certainly not a player character, and no you can't "switch off" what he was before. But I don't think that it would hinder learning new skills, especially since there's a starting package that gives arbitrators Deceive (Fel), Intimidate (Str) and Peer (Underworld) in spite of all of their indoctrination (it's called Justice, Not Law).


I spent the last few days painting a venerable battle barge for my Space Marine chapter (and giving my Eldar pirate prince a shiny new blaster pistol).

http://fenvar.lima-city.de/Warhammer...fDestiny1a.jpg
http://fenvar.lima-city.de/Warhammer...fDestiny2a.jpg
http://fenvar.lima-city.de/Warhammer...fDestiny3a.jpg
http://fenvar.lima-city.de/Warhammer...fDestiny4a.jpg
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1025
12-05-2010, 05:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by K-Tar
What's an "everyday hero"?
Characters who walk the thin line between doing extraordinary and legendary stuff - but most of all, characters whose background doesn't scream "special snowflake". It's just an opinion thing, and I understand that preferences are different (which, in the end, is why they released three 40k RPGs and not just one).

Quote:
Originally Posted by K-Tar
I don't want Doctor Conan, just the chance to be able to choose the proportions of my skills. Both of the builds you're proposed have one class in which the character is good and one in which he has barely skills to speak of. There's no way to make him mediocre in both roles.
I still don't believe there should be a way to make him mediocre in both roles. Either he focuses on his role as a librarian, or he spent too much time as a warrior which makes learning scribbly stuff harder. It's not like the character himself would have any influence on this and could pick his daily schedule. He's a cog in the wheel and gets told what to learn - either by harsh life circumstances or by his superiors. The skillset should reflect this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by K-Tar
Because the rogue didn't really pick it up over decades. He picked it up when he spent xp on it. You have no problem with a Fighter in TDE spending XP to learn sneaking and lockpicking (without any pricing disadvantages) why not in DH?
I'm perfectly fine with explaining this away as a "predestination". In my mind, the Rogue does not make a snap with his fingers and then he knows it, he finally succeeds in doing something he was working towards for years. I believe this to be much more believable, and .

As for the comparison, characters in TDE are not as "limited" in their lifestyle as people living in the 41st millennium. And if a character has happened to pick up such a uniquely rogue'ish talent due to his background, that's what talking with your GM and Elite Advances are for. But I do not believe in opening up everything of the Rogue's abilities just because a player has XP to spare. Either you have a classless system, or you have one with classes - the former is preferrable, but if you have to work with the latter, stick to it and make classes count. Again, YMMV.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1026
12-05-2010, 06:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by K-Tar
I spent the last few days painting a venerable battle barge for my Space Marine chapter (and giving my Eldar pirate prince a shiny new blaster pistol).

http://fenvar.lima-city.de/Warhammer...fDestiny1a.jpg
http://fenvar.lima-city.de/Warhammer...fDestiny2a.jpg
http://fenvar.lima-city.de/Warhammer...fDestiny3a.jpg
http://fenvar.lima-city.de/Warhammer...fDestiny4a.jpg
You know that's a Chaos cruiser, right? *Australian accent* Dat ain't a battle-barge. THIS is a battle-barge. :p
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1027
12-06-2010, 01:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valias
I still don't believe there should be a way to make him mediocre in both roles. Either he focuses on his role as a librarian, or he spent too much time as a warrior which makes learning scribbly stuff harder. It's not like the character himself would have any influence on this and could pick his daily schedule. He's a cog in the wheel and gets told what to learn - either by harsh life circumstances or by his superiors. The skillset should reflect this.
Yep, and I would imagine that all chapter serfs go through combat training (they can't afford anything else, because the ship crews are mainly servitors and there aren't necessarily enough marines to repel and conduct all boarding parties) and then specialise in other duties. Best example for such multi-tasking is again the Space Marine Librarian who has to combine physical power, psionic power and a lot of knowledge. A librarian-serf would only have to combine two areas.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valias
I'm perfectly fine with explaining this away as a "predestination". In my mind, the Rogue does not make a snap with his fingers and then he knows it, he finally succeeds in doing something he was working towards for years. I believe this to be much more believable, and .
For me it's like TDE in the idealized form. You spent the XP you got while trying something to improve the appropriate skill. Based on the time you got the necessary xp in, not the years before.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valias
As for the comparison, characters in TDE are not as "limited" in their lifestyle as people living in the 41st millennium. And if a character has happened to pick up such a uniquely rogue'ish talent due to his background, that's what talking with your GM and Elite Advances are for. But I do not believe in opening up everything of the Rogue's abilities just because a player has XP to spare.
Either you have a classless system, or you have one with classes - the former is preferrable, but if you have to work with the latter, stick to it and make classes count. Again, YMMV.[/quote]

There are a lot of worlds in 40k, I don't buy that you can depict everything with the few classes from DH, and there's a reason that the best class-based systems have multiclassing rules, but I guess none of us will be able to convince the other of his opinion.^^

Quote:
Originally Posted by Allerka View Post
You know that's a Chaos cruiser, right? *Australian accent* Dat ain't a battle-barge. THIS is a battle-barge. :p
Sorry Mick, I'm using the newer (but less official) rules (page 5). That's why it's a "venerable" battle barge.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1028
12-06-2010, 06:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by K-Tar
Sorry Mick, I'm using the newer (but less official) rules (page 5). That's why it's a "venerable" battle barge.
Uh huh... Well, that contradicts every other piece of lore on the topic, but alrighty then.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1029
12-06-2010, 06:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Allerka View Post
Uh huh... Well, that contradicts every other piece of lore on the topic, but alrighty then.
As far as I remember most ships of chaos are defected imperial ships (in fact it is in the official rules (Armada, p. 29) that a lot of chaos cruisers are available for Segmentum Obscurus reserve fleets), and there is enough canon evidence for Space Marine chapters not caring for the Codex Smurfs. Btw, there are also tons of canon evidence for chaos marines using battle barges and strike cruisers.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1030
12-06-2010, 08:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by K-Tar
Yep, and I would imagine that all chapter serfs go through combat training (they can't afford anything else, because the ship crews are mainly servitors and there aren't necessarily enough marines to repel and conduct all boarding parties) and then specialise in other duties. Best example for such multi-tasking is again the Space Marine Librarian who has to combine physical power, psionic power and a lot of knowledge. A librarian-serf would only have to combine two areas.
Well, I have another stance on the subject. Librarian-serfs are librarians. First and foremost, if not only. Bookkeeping is their job, and they would do well to concentrate on this, for failure in their duties would not bode well. Fighting is for the Marines, the Imperial Guard, the PDF and, if need be, the militia. A comparison with the Astartes Chapter Librarian, despite the somewhat similar monicker, is quite far-fetched. Not only because of the much longer lifespan (and greater experience) of the Marine, but also because he went through the normal Marine creation process, including hypno-training, weapon drills and genetic upgrades.

But that's just my take on the subject. In my eyes, Chapter serfs are smallfolk. Peasants. But I guess our interpretation differs a bit on this detail.
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