Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
12-13-2010, 03:07 PM
Left my comments on your misson Nagus...

Main one though is make sure you put the mission system (door) in the Journal text as well. The first pop up tells you where to go but if you click though it, you don't ever get that again. I had to drop the mission and retake it, to find out where to go.

Otherwise, good basic mission. Keep up the good work.

Goz
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
12-13-2010, 03:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cryptic_Gozer
Left my comments on your misson Nagus...

Main one though is make sure you put the mission system (door) in the Journal text as well. The first pop up tells you where to go but if you click though it, you don't ever get that again. I had to drop the mission and retake it, to find out where to go.

Otherwise, good basic mission. Keep up the good work.

Goz
This sounds eerily similar to the way players were lost trying to find missions in beta and when the game first launched in Feb.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
12-13-2010, 03:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cryptic_Gozer
Main one though is make sure you put the mission system (door) in the Journal text as well. The first pop up tells you where to go but if you click though it, you don't ever get that again. I had to drop the mission and retake it, to find out where to go.
Ideally, the journal text should list both system AND sector, since the map allows you to easily find sectors, but not systems, unless you happen to be in the same sector block as the system.

The system itself should ideally be in the first mission step.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
12-13-2010, 03:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Axterix
Quote:
So in a true KDF "side of the story" would be you playing as one of the waves, against a single Fed team. Since that wont really work, I've changed it so that your goal is to capture said "ambassador", and you have to fight your way through waves of Feds(on P'jem) to do so. .
I'd say a true KDF side of the story would involve being part of the initial capture of the monastary, maybe with some looking for clues of Undine infiltration, followed by holding a part of it against a federation counterattack (perhaps guarding the previously mentioned clues), and ending with the battle in space where you fight the Undine. So a bit of a prequel at the start, followed by doing a different but related thing while the player is clearing the way for the ambassador, and ending at the same point, alongside what a fed would be doing.
I would agree. Having you "capture" the ambassador and fight waves of feds, feels wrong, for the mission. Axterix's version feels a bit more natural. Its tricky to pull off, but it can be done. The relevant tropes are Hero Of Another Story and Rashomon Style. Pulling off a "Hero Of Another Story" can be delicate, since the player presumably already saw the story and through their actions, caused the other side to "lose." This is where the Rashomon Style, comes in. The hero causes an action, in which the perceived result is X, but in story two Y is what actually happened.

In the case of the P'Jem story, this actually works out pretty well, because--when you get right down to it--the Heroes of the first story are dead wrong and actually make things worse. The Klingons of the story are the heroes, and the Federations, if not the villains, are the dupes of a probable Undine, Xanatos Gambit.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
12-13-2010, 04:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jennjahn View Post
In the case of the P'Jem story, this actually works out pretty well, because--when you get right down to it--the Heroes of the first story are dead wrong and actually make things worse. The Klingons of the story are the heroes, and the Federations, if not the villains, are the dupes of a probable Undine, Xanatos Gambit.
Yeah, this story is nice because ultimately, both sides join together to defeat the baddy, so both win. Makes it easy to reconcile the two sides.

Trying to work an outside main character into an existing story with its own heroes is typically a lot harder. Especially if that character is on the "losing" side.

Take the Orion mission, for example. Obviously, you cannot be the Orions, they lose. But I could see the player taking some part in the initial capture of the ship, alongside an Orion ally. Some valuable cargo is then taken from the ship. And then the player leaves, but the Orion ship elects to stay behind to claim the prize ship. In essence, the Klingon side all takes place before the Fed side. Then end result would then be that players who have run both appreciate both more, as the two support each other, but they are not in conflict with each other. Both can happen in the same time line.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
12-13-2010, 04:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The.Grand.Nagus View Post
Well, for "Stranded in Space" I had to make a KDF version. The reason is BC that particular mission doesnt involve Klingons(but rather Orions), so there is no Klingon "side of the story". However, for the missions that do involve Klingons I'll try to make a KDF side of the story, although it wont be quite that simple. For example, I'm currently working on "Diplomatic Delivery", which is the Fed episode where you escort a "Vulcan Ambassador" to P'jem. Once you arrive, you have to fight through waves of Klingons to get to the monastery. So in a true KDF "side of the story" would be you playing as one of the waves, against a single Fed team. Since that wont really work, I've changed it so that your goal is to capture said "ambassador", and you have to fight your way through waves of Feds(on P'jem) to do so.
Awesome stuff! Looking forward to trying these as soon as RL permits!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
12-13-2010, 04:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Direphoenix View Post
This sounds eerily similar to the way players were lost trying to find missions in beta and when the game first launched in Feb.
Somewhat simular problem. Only difference is the information on where to go was always in the Journal even in Beta. They just didn't know where to look for it.

People don't read... you can count on that ... You just have to make sure that the information they need is there, once they go back to the Journal and read what they missed the first time.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
12-13-2010, 04:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cryptic_Gozer
Somewhat simular problem. Only difference is the information on where to go was always in the Journal even in Beta. They just didn't know where to look for it.
The biggest problem in Beta wasn't the system, but the lack of sector info. And that often wasn't in there. A prime example would be references to the Neutral Zone to get to Deep Space K-7. That the Neutral Zone was actually Eta Erindani was not explained. Nor was K-7 on the Galaxy map like it now.

That lack of Sector info is still annoying, by the way, and is still missing even from newer missions, like the Devidian ones. A mission's journal entry should always give both system and sector.

Quote:
People don't read... you can count on that ... You just have to make sure that the information they need is there, once they go back to the Journal and read what they missed the first time.
That much is true, for sure. The amount of times I see people asking where the Breen patrol is...gee, could it be right where the mission says it is, doing what the mission says it does? Why, yes it is! Silly peoples.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
12-13-2010, 04:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cryptic_Gozer
Left my comments on your misson Nagus...

Main one though is make sure you put the mission system (door) in the Journal text as well. The first pop up tells you where to go but if you click though it, you don't ever get that again. I had to drop the mission and retake it, to find out where to go.

Otherwise, good basic mission. Keep up the good work.

Goz
Aw, you were just clicking through first box? Oh well, thanks for giving it a try! I've updated the mission description like you said too
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
12-13-2010, 04:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The.Grand.Nagus View Post
Aw, you were just clicking through first box? Oh well, thanks for giving it a try!
Even if people read it, they might get called away to dinner or to join a friend/fleetmate somewhere else...

That's why it is important to put it in the part that winds up in the journal, since players can always access that.
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