Go Back   Star Trek Online > Information and Discussion > Star Trek Online General Discussion
Login

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 71
12-19-2010, 12:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveyNY View Post
I thank you all for the offers to complete the STF's...
I will try to look you up when I get my current toon up to RA.

I really enjoy leveling/grinding my way up through the ranks, this is my 6th time doing it. (Not counting my
Klingon)
I've retired my previous Fed. toons at RA and dumped thier unbound stuff into my mail account for future use when I think I might need it. So it will be awhile before I'm ready to try and tackle the STF's again.

My point is that for the Dev's to now put Extra-Special rewards into a part of the game that most players have a very slim chance of getting, after making Almost All other rewards available to "Everyone" through the regular aspects of game play and/or purchase, was Unfair...

I was not expressing a desire to have an "I Completed the STF's Sign" just given to me...
(and just a reminder, gaining these Special Rewards through the STF's Alone... WILL create an atmosphere of Elitism among those who are able to obtain them and those who are not.)

I am expressing a desire to have another "Solo Avenue" (and not necessairly an easier one) within the game to obtain said Special Rewards.

Perhaps every time a player destroys 500 or 1000 or 5000 BORG Ships one piece of the set could be the reward.

I don't ever want Rewards to just be handed to me.., but I do desire there be a way to be able to obtain said Rewards through my particular game abilities.

The game is ever changing. The Dev's are going around and adding new content all over the game. The borg set is based on the STF's because that is where you mostly fight the borg. The Aegis set coming soon is in the crafting aspect of the game. The game is not in its final form so expect things to change and more unique rewards to pop up in different parts of the game. I myself will get the borg set but I doubt I will have it showing on my ship as a token. I like your suggestion for putting a reward for a certain number of kills, I just wonder if the Dev's could do it that way or enough support to ask them too. But yes, look me up in game and I'll even run lower level missions too. We have a night each week we help level each others lower toons.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 72
12-19-2010, 03:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigduckie
Check out my fleet. we will happily run through it with you quite quickly. I ran it with a new guy i mean less than a month old and it was one of the fastest runs ever actually if i recall correctly it was with 2 people who never did it before.
just join up with people who know some inkling of what to do. a group of people who dont know what to do still dont know what to do.

heck im online right now we can chat

forums.veteransofwar.com pop an app and ill make sure to personally take care of it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by StrykerV
Look me up in game with matthew,wraith or chlobug @strykerv. Galdy run the missions with you to get a feel of how they are. We don't need to be great players to beat missions. Just learn how to play the mission itself. I wouldn't call us elite STF'ers, I have seen some other fleets claim much faster times for the STF's then we run. As for PvP, my fleet isn't great. We are learning by trial and error and going on there and getting our tails handed to us. What about a "Fleet" are you reluctant about? I was in a fleet for two months and never knew I was. Then I found some guys I liked to play with and learned a whole lot more about the game. We don't make you do anything you don't want. You can come on for casual gaming and chat with us if you'd like and if a team gets ready for a STF you can join. We are not a role playing fleet is what I mean.

As for the borg sets, you can still craft the Aegis set if you want just like everyone else. I quote from a fleet mate "so... you want to put the sign that says "I completed the STFs" on your ship, but you don't want to do the STFs to get it?...does not compute. If you really want the borg set then you'll do what it takes to beat an STF.

This just popped in my head but you have done an STF the entire game. Everytime you take your away team down to a ground mission, is in essence a STF. The difference is 4 computer Bridge Officers vs 4 human players. If you have a sci BO you take to the ground, ever notice them give you medical tricorder 1? They are healing you, as if their role to help keep their team alive. Same concept draws to having 5 human players, each person should have a role. Sci are great at healing, eng have abilites like force field dome to keep enemies away and tac are good at raw dps. Some STF's don't require all skills to be there. Infected can be done with any combo including 5 tac's. Cure and KA will need a good sci captain though.
Both of these are generous and reasonable offers, anyone who did not give them consideration is bull headed at best. i would consider them but my play time is early morning, PST), which leaves me with few people to team up with.

While I have yet to finish a STF, I do not think think they are impossible. On one occasion I was teamed with a group of four all the way through and had the Borg Queen out of the box multiple times, (we even figured out how to get past the plasma vent at the door the of queen's chamber), before reality took two of our players away. All said not bad for a literal PUG.

I am certain that if it were not for the misfortune of being a graveyard worker, (I work nights), I would have most of the STFs under my belt by now. With resources like Sanctuary of Wanderhome's Hitch Hikers Guides there is no real reason that STFs cannot be PUGed, if you call out in zone for what you need like shield buffing engineers and medics before you enter the STF.

I really should find a nice Brit fleet willing to deal with an odd ball Yank. My play time would would probably match up with theirs better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thlaylie View Post
Again maybe I don't speak so well, but wasn't the referral program "fair" and everyone had a shot a getting the item if they did the work?

Yet public outcry got the Galaxy X nerfed.

I don't see the difference between the 2 programs and I expect more well spoken outcries to come. Both required social connections. I found the referral easier because I didn't have to find 5 people in the same timezone and relied on relatives.

I also understand the outcry as I barely found 5 people. Why can't anyone understand the casual gamer outcry at STF exclusive content? (Didn't they also say something about NO exclusive content when the backlash from the Galaxy X struck?)

Again I will try to learn and play these missions, I just wish there was more fun and less work to this game.
Way I see it you have five real life friends/acquaintances to chose from when it comes to building a team for a STF. So you are right there is no real difference, Thlaylie.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 73
12-19-2010, 03:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by piwright42 View Post
Both of these are generous and reasonable offers, anyone who did not give them consideration is bull headed at best. i would consider them but my play time is early morning, PST), which leaves me with few people to team up with.

While I have yet to finish a STF, I do not think think they are impossible. On one occasion I was teamed with a group of four all the way through and had the Borg Queen out of the box multiple times, (we even figured out how to get past the plasma vent at the door the of queen's chamber), before reality took two of our players away. All said not bad for a literal PUG.

I am certain that if it were not for the misfortune of being a graveyard worker, (I work nights), I would have most of the STFs under my belt by now. With resources like Sanctuary of Wanderhome's Hitch Hikers Guides there is no real reason that STFs cannot be PUGed, if you call out in zone for what you need like shield buffing engineers and medics before you enter the STF.

I really should find a nice Brit fleet willing to deal with an odd ball Yank. My play time would would probably match up with theirs better.



Way I see it you have five real life friends/acquaintances to chose from when it comes to building a team for a STF. So you are right there is no real difference, Thlaylie.

What time do you play? I am on nights this week and your only 3 hours behind. We do have a dozen or more people in your time zone and a big chunk in brit area. I plan to play here when I get off work for a little bit.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 74
12-19-2010, 03:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thlaylie View Post
The only problem with the fleet missions is they are now going to be offering EXCLUSIVE CONTENT only acheivable if you have a social gaming group.

This is BAD as some of us can not get this gear. I PUG'd Infected the other day for 6 hours and we ended up with only 3 people. Could you possibly put more Borg in that? maybe a Cube or 2 in the space station to make sure no one has a chance?

If cryptic suppors exclusive STF gear then they need to reissue an exclusive upgraded to tier 6 Uber Galaxy to those of us who earned them through the referral program as the excuse for nerfing that was "no one should have access to exclusive content someone else can't earn" or some drek like that.

Make the STF's scalable to the number of players in the mission at the time. If someone bolts, cut the mobs back to compensate. Currently they are way too hard anyway.
Consider: The more mechanics added to a mission (like scaling enemies or whatever) is more stuff that can bug up.

That said, I have no problem with content that *requires* you to consider your group and tactics.. Ill miss out on a lot (or spend countless hours trying), but if not these missions as content for fleets that prefer a challenge, what then?

There need to be content both for the casual players (like you and me) and for the dedicated ones..
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 75
12-19-2010, 04:46 AM
The Fleet Actions and the Patrol missions seem to be the closest we have currently as a precusors to the STFs.

Maybe the new Klingon Sorties go even further in that direction, with optional goals that require you to team up (but do they really, or are they easy enough? I don't think I have played the current incarnation yet).

Fleet Actions do not actually require teaming, and teamwork is not necessarily benefitial for a players chance to get first place. If you're a Cruiser Captain keeping an Escort alive, chances are good he gets the higher score. That's incredibly lame and unconductive. That's something that needs to be changed outright.

Patrols just scale with the number of players. They don't have any special content that you can only succeed at if there are multiple players.
Maybe that is another angle to adress? Supposedly, Cryptic is going back to some old missions and make them replayable with the opposition scaling to the player's level, and some "mysterious" special perk that's not more closely described yet.

That might be something to do. In every mission, add optional objectives that you can only achieve by teaming up - not just because you are superior firepower, but because you literally need to send players to different locations and coordinate their actions. For example, one player has to disable a force field that will re-activate before he can get through it - but a second player could lie in wait and go through thje field when it's deactivated. Or you just have to split up to stop an enemy group killing your allies. Or you just get an extra reward if you need only 1 minute to interact with 5 objects spread across the map.

Completing these optional goals could give special equipment, or might just advance the tracker for additional Badges/Marks/Emblems. If the content is repeteable, it might give consumables (which will always motivate you to go back and stock up again.)

These optional objectives would be fairy simple - just one or two such goals per mission. (Maybe 1 that requires just two players, and another that might work better with 3-5 players.) These missions are needed at every tier, of course.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 76
12-19-2010, 11:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by piwright42 View Post
Both of these are generous and reasonable offers, anyone who did not give them consideration is bull headed at best. i would consider them but my play time is early morning, PST), which leaves me with few people to team up with.

While I have yet to finish a STF, I do not think think they are impossible. On one occasion I was teamed with a group of four all the way through and had the Borg Queen out of the box multiple times, (we even figured out how to get past the plasma vent at the door the of queen's chamber), before reality took two of our players away. All said not bad for a literal PUG.

I am certain that if it were not for the misfortune of being a graveyard worker, (I work nights), I would have most of the STFs under my belt by now. With resources like Sanctuary of Wanderhome's Hitch Hikers Guides there is no real reason that STFs cannot be PUGed, if you call out in zone for what you need like shield buffing engineers and medics before you enter the STF.

I really should find a nice Brit fleet willing to deal with an odd ball Yank. My play time would would probably match up with theirs better.



Way I see it you have five real life friends/acquaintances to chose from when it comes to building a team for a STF. So you are right there is no real difference, Thlaylie.
Except my friends are in DIFFERENT timezones!

Please read the post before responding, it looked like you were just jumping on the attack me wagon there.

If we could do the mission in parts that would work.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 77
12-19-2010, 11:48 AM
PIwright42 im central also oklahoma here. me and quite a few of my fleet mates have shovels and dirty fingernails. ill send you a friend invite via the forum. and ill see you ingame maybe
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 78
12-19-2010, 12:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thlaylie View Post
Except my friends are in DIFFERENT timezones!

Please read the post before responding, it looked like you were just jumping on the attack me wagon there.

If we could do the mission in parts that would work.
Yup you got me I scanned over your post. Still if you can get five people to adopt the game in real life you have the skills to get folk to help you in game. This thread seems to attest to that. My post was not an attack, instead it was a suggestion. I have seen you in game chat a couple times. Though I am in another time zone I would be happy to help. Next time I see you in chat I will shoot you a friend invite. I hang in TSS chat and on the KDFassistance channel, you know if you happen to swing Kling. To be honest Thlaylie it seems that most everyone on this thread wants to see you succeed.

Swing Kling... So should make a T-Shirt about that.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 79
12-19-2010, 12:48 PM
I like it. Perhaps a picture of a Klingon with a large package.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 80
12-19-2010, 01:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leviathan99
Take a game like WoW. Heroic Dungeons were inherently better for bringing players into endgame than guilds are.
This is false. You have to remember that the three groups you describe are only the groups you're personally familiar with or have an affinity for. Before WoW even went into beta (during friends & family alpha, in fact), guilds were forming among people with similar playstyles and level of commitment in the pursuit of goals. You saying that lowering the bar is better for bringing people into endgame has some merit (it's what every MMO developer is doing, after all) but it smacks of personal bias because you fail to acknowledge the alternatives (which you might not be familiar with).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leviathan99
In STO, my basic question is: why do STFs? They're just this weird little alternative gameplay style that gets dumped on you at endgame, for which there is no puggable precursor to make people consider doing them.

Grouping needs to be introduced to players before you require a skilled form of it. Otherwise, people won't group and they certainly won't do challenging group content.

Even in an MMO, you have to sell people on grouping and teach them to do it before you can reasonably expect skilled groups to form, aside from the people whose brains are just wired funny, that one of the four Bartle types that's social.
I agree with this but it's more than that. In STO (and pretty much all games of its kind that specifically target and pursue the most casual of playstyles), the gear from "raids" isn't significantly better than the gear acquirable from other, less stringent sources. Thus, the only people who complain about not being able to access that gear are those who are indignant over the mere thought of having to socialize or join a collective to experience certain content (and get those rewards). Now, before the spray of indignation turns in my direction, I should note that I soloed from tutorial to Vice Admiral with two teams (of friends from other MMOs) at Lt and that's it. But I've also led raid guilds in other games (so I'm familiar with herding wet cats) and have no problems with this game's structure. I just haven't found a fleet that matches my playstyle, goals, and level of commitment to achieving those goals. And I'm somewhat old school in that I don't believe in "guild hopping".

I would agree that there are no "starter raids" in STO but that's to be expected. No one designs those kinds of things at the start of development. Heck, STO doesn't have many raids period. I don't think expecting them to put in raids for the less organized/motivated this early in the game's life is a very good use of resources. The same thing will happen to those raids that occurs in every other game's: they'll be farmed to death by the people who they weren't intended for and then never done again. Fleets will train their newbies on raids the fleet is doing (read: not the starter raid) because it's more efficient to do it that way. Teaching a new player/member the specifics of an encounter they're likely to see a lot is far more effective than taking them through the Chutes & Ladders of raids. But you're right on one thing. You do have to incentivize teaming (for raiding or otherwise) since there are significant drawbacks to shouldering other peoples' issues with your own. If given the choice between playing on their own (with all the various benefits of doing so) and playing with someone else and having to deal with their issues (AFKs, "wife aggro", skill level, preferred playstyle, etc), many people go with the former over the latter (I know I do and I've been a hardcore 'guild' player since October of '99).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leviathan99
But they aren't taught to want to do it. Teaming is not a terribly organic part of gameplay until you run into that brick wall where you're expected to be good at it.

I'm not against challenging STFs but there needs to be some kind of precursor to get people in the mindset of organized grouping or people won't do it.

Besides, who even talks in a PuG at Lt. 7 if they do wind up in one?
Again Leviathan, who's gonna pay for it? Do you expect the playerbase as a whole to forgo any content that's broad in appeal, so they can use those resources to create your starter raid(s)? Remember, creating a raid isn't just a matter of design. You need coding and perhaps art (or people will whine about the raid looking like something else). So many of the departments you'd need to create new content that appeals to all players, would be tasked with helping to create this raid that appeals to....who, exactly?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic_One View Post
I don't disagree with the idea that Cryptic needs to find ways to get people to team throughout the game. I simply disagree with the idea that it can be done at the end of the game. After 45+ levels of solo play a 15 minute PUG tutorial before attempting the hardest content in the game will accomplish nothing. People need to be taught the benefits of group play long before they get to an STF. There needs to be must-team objectives throughout the game to teach people the benefits of teaming. By the time they get to the STFs people are to hardened into the solo play mode.
I would agree with this only because, in my experience from talking to many people (fleet recruiters/members and otherwise) that there are many people who play this game who aren't well versed in raiding, in general. Many of the lessons taught by raiding in other games are easily applicable here. The specific differences could be taught via a quick tutorial but that's assuming the player is familiar with raiding in general. If they're not, a tutorial's not going to do it but a full scale raid scenario (like Leviathan suggests) would. Problem is, there's a cost (even if it's only an opportunity cost) to implementing that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic_One View Post
Raids in every MMO are designed for multiple people. Loners in all of the 300+ MMOs are just going to have to learn to accept that.
You say that as if people who prefer the solo path are somehow deviant in doing so. If the developers agreed with you, they would make teaming mandatory (if not overtly, then definitely 'functionally'). It's not like it hasn't been done before (*cough*EverQuest*cough*). While I would agree that it seems daft to complain about content designed for groups when 99% of the game is soloable, I can't agree with the insinuation that choosing not to be saddled by other people's issues (or to saddle them with your own, whatever the case may be) somehow makes you an undesirable. 'Loner' doesn't tend to have a positive connotation, y'see (much like 'drifter'). I'm guilded in nearly every MMO I play, except this one and a few of the f2p ones. Of course, what you say isn't true either. I know of several people who can do raids all by themselves (multiboxing). So your 'all of the 300+ MMOs' statement is false.
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:32 AM.