Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1 On Borg, and Borgy STFs
12-29-2010, 04:45 AM
Between about 8 different fleet mates, and 10 hours of game play, my group managed to complete both the Cure and Khitomer Accord tonight, in sequence.

Save for a couple hours of headaches caused by a team member who wasn't entirely there, this was a competent, well equipped, and fairly knowledgeable group. We were all aware of the particulars of the encounters, or we all learned them within a death or two. There were only three accidental pulls the entire time.

The Cure took us 5 hours. (We were done in about an hour once the absenty team mate was removed, however)

Khitomer Accord took us 4 and change. But, at the final boss fight, two of us were stuck "at the top of the map" and weren't even able to get to the battle.

Were they fun? They were. But I can barely remember that over how frustrating it was to complete them.

The Good

Environmental design here gets progressively better. They aren't quite up to par with the newer and absolutely brilliant Breen and Deferi environments. But, that's only because they're a bit older. They look pretty. They have "atmosphere" - the feel of a breathing world that is sorely missing in most of the exploration missions and pvp maps. (A good chunk of the Fed story episodes have it, but not to this caliber.)

The encounter design is imaginative.

If not for how clunky the respawn mechanics and mob placement is... I might even call it immersive.

The Bad

The root of it is this: Clunky level design. The respawn points in these STF's are horrible. In some cases its a Marathon Sprint to get to the front. And, then, mobs respawn.... turning the Marathon into a Kilometer long Gauntlet.

The Cure, for example, features shield walls which can only be lowered by activating and then defending transmitters in a daisy chained sequence. Any break in the chain causes the entire sequence to fail. You are the weakest link, Good bye. Highly imaginative, almost fun. What stops it?

Simple. The best way to beat something shouldn't be called the "non agro method." Nor should clearing out all the Borg, save one from each set, (and then intentionally failing so that they don't all spawn) be the best alternative.

A player should never have to exploit bad mechanics in order to overcome worse mechanics.

The Borg - most of this applies to every instance of the Borg in the game.

If the game awarded a single Energy Credit for every time one of my fleet mates said some variation of I hate the Borg during these runs, I'd have enough to go to the insanely over inflated Exchange, buy out all the currently posted Aegis pieces, refit all of my ships... and then buy a small moon. Twice. And then have credits left over.

Root. Root. Root. Roots are terrible alone. Roots are worse when chained. No player should be stuck and unable to do anything for minutes at a time in an encounter like this. This is annoying enough when dealing with it the first time. It becomes mindnumbing when being subjected to it as part of Respawn Gauntlet Marathon. And this doesn't count how obnoxious Assimilate becomes.

Assimilate should not stack. It would not stack. You have been probed by the Borg. One probing will do. Two probings is pushing it. Anything else is overkill. My personal record during that run way 7 at once. Seven. Cripping damage over time combined with a slowing root.

It's very effective... but its not very Borg. I could imagine Assimilate acting as a mind control for a few seconds where you fire on your friends... like Scramble sensors does in space. That works. That's evil... and it still shouldn't stack.

Elites being immune to damage for 30 seconds. Unnecessary. They're already Elites. They already have relatively massive HP and DPS. They don't need to be stronger. They shouldn't take the focus fire of an entire team to take down. If you want to add "minibosses," then add minibosses... and please, make them drop something worth killing them for. Hundreds of trash mobs and one boss... not really worth it at all.

Nodes. Interesting idea, terrible execution. I get it. You want to make the Borg a little more fearsome. Need to kill the node to disable the just like on TV. Better idea. As long as the node is alive the Borg get "adaptive" shielding which stacks in the same manner as the Aegis set buff. They can still be killed, it just might take a bit longer, but once they go down they dont get back up.

Proto Drones. If there was a very low chance that these would be spawned during a given fight they'd be okay. But the chance isn't low. It's high. A fight against four drones can turn into a fight against twelve. Combine the then very lopsided fight with assimilate, the nodes, and elites... and it becomes and excersise in frustration.

The Borg are not scary in Star Trek Online. They don't elicit fear. All they stir in players is sighs of frustrated boredom.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
12-29-2010, 06:22 AM
There are specific strategies to remedy every situation you listed... Perhaps you have not figured them out yet? Sounds like someone needs some more time in the woodshed... Practice makes perfect... You need to kill borg in the correct order of destruction to avoid all of the pitfalls you mentioned... it is called "Tactics" and you still need to work on some of these.

However... it appears that you have made a good start.. remember... No one just waltzes through these... it takes patience and practice to get these STF's nailed down to actually be a lot of fun. Do your homework and be prepared... Things will improve for you down the road but it will not be easy... There is no "I WIN" button for STF's.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
12-29-2010, 06:43 AM
He's making suggestions to Cryptic about how to reduce the frustration levels and you're here berating him for not being tactical enough to get through them.

There's one thing to be good or bad at a meaningless video game and enjoy the experience. It's something else to take every opportunity to tell everyone how one is so much smarter than everyone else because of one's ability to play a meaningless video game.

Have you noticed everyone making posts like the one above is boasting on their own "skill" at the game, while simultaneously offering nothing in the way of actual constructive and useful knowledge? At best you get referred to someone else's video tutorials or a meaningless anecdotes of people who have no jobs who've gotten through them in ridiculous time? You might get the occasional offer to look someone up in-world but that's only giving you 1 of the other 4 players you need to do it
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
12-29-2010, 06:52 AM
congratz on completing them !!
they do get easier as you run them more and learn all the little "ins and outs".
Good job tho sticking with it and completing them
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
12-29-2010, 07:01 AM
There are many threads detailing how to deal with specific problems and I felt it un-necessary to continuously type walls of text in a vain attempt to educate players that are not willing to do their own homework or try to improve their gameplay.

I'm not trying to insult anyone... I'm attempting to point out that these missions can be fun, but have a steep learning curve that many players are not willing or able to do...

If you think I'm trying to specifically insult people then you are mistaken... I can do that very well without any ambiguity.

No man is an island in the STF's... it is all about teamwork. I make no claims of being some kind of uber-player, but if you choose to elevate me in your eyes then I will take that as a compliment to my many hours of hard work honing my skills and team tactics.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
12-29-2010, 08:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Napoleon_BlownApart
There are many threads detailing how to deal with specific problems and I felt it un-necessary to continuously type walls of text in a vain attempt to educate players that are not willing to do their own homework or try to improve their gameplay.
But you find it necessary to continuously type walls of text in a vain attempt to what? Continuously insult people you don't know? Shame players into watching other people's videos? This is a community to discuss and exchange ideas, not a place for you to raise your misplaced self-esteem.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
12-29-2010, 12:37 PM
Quote:
Between about 8 different fleet mates, and 10 hours of game play, my group managed to complete both the Cure and Khitomer Accord tonight, in sequence.

Save for a couple hours of headaches caused by a team member who wasn't entirely there, this was a competent, well equipped, and fairly knowledgeable group. We were all aware of the particulars of the encounters, or we all learned them within a death or two. There were only three accidental pulls the entire time.

Congrats on completing them both. Infected (at least for our fleet) has become a pretty good training run for STFs, Cure and KA being the graduation levels. (Fleet just completed a KA run with a perfect 0 out of 6 'probe score' in great time) Cure is difficult and can try the patience of even great teams.

So, comments are valid - but seriously - sit back a bit and realize your fleet is accomplishing what only the top fleets are doing. Good on ya !
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
12-29-2010, 01:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Napoleon_BlownApart
No man is an island in the STF's... it is all about teamwork. I make no claims of being some kind of uber-player, but if you choose to elevate me in your eyes then I will take that as a compliment to my many hours of hard work honing my skills and team tactics.
STFs aren't hard. They don't really require much in the way of tactics for the most part. Avoiding aggroing extra groups. Kill the nodes. Kill little things before big things. Don't stand next to drones that assimulate. That'll get you through most of each STF, as they are mostly filler.

Then there's the other parts. You've got one fight where the main strats used consist of trying to avoid a fight the designer most likely meant you to do (and you get to do this multiple times, gee, that's fun). You've got another fight that is a pretty simple (melee) tank and (ranged) spank, doesn't really require much in the way of tactics either. And, hey, let's not forget getting to shoot a generator 6 times, just to make sure you really, really are able to do it.

What the STFs are is loaded with annoyances and pointless filler. This makes them frustrating for people and offputting for the casuals that make up the vast majority of this game. You can run around saying use tactics all you want, it doesn't change this. And you fail to realize that this is detrimental to those that like group content.

The first bits should be a bit more inviting to casuals, so they can learn the basics. And then it should build up in difficulty as you get further into them, along with offering better rewards, including bigger loot tables so as to encourage running them multiple times*. What you want is for those players to enjoy that first experience and to ask the devs for more.

* Of course, to do this well, the itemization system used in STO needs a revamp. The linear, direct bonuses to stats system is a flawed concept that doesn't allow for expansion. Maybe the devs can get around to changing that after ground combat.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
12-29-2010, 02:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Axterix
STFs aren't hard. They don't really require much in the way of tactics for the most part.

..snip..

What the STFs are is loaded with annoyances and pointless filler. This makes them frustrating for people and offputting for the casuals that make up the vast majority of this game. You can run around saying use tactics all you want, it doesn't change this. And you fail to realize that this is detrimental to those that like group content.
This hits the nail on the head.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
12-29-2010, 07:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by phlyto View Post
Khitomer Accord took us 4 and change. But, at the final boss fight, two of us were stuck "at the top of the map" and weren't even able to get to the battle.
This is a bug that will happens sometimes.

If you get this bug, everyone have to beam out. When you all are in Gamma Orionis, everyone leave the team.
Now the person or persons who were stuck, go back in system. Then they will invite the others players in team, and everyone join the system. You only have to kill the probes and you will get the option "Follow Donatra", wait till everyone have this option and click it
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