Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 61
01-02-2011, 05:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by foesbane View Post
Commander Sumary: Feds beat KDF hands down most matches. Feds started using much more advance tactices like Tykens Rift. Feds focused fire much better. KDF still didn't call shots or team up much. Flew BOP most of the time. K'Tinga still lacks punch or survivability.
My Klingon is currently Captain 9 and I've pretty much exclusively brought him up through PvP flying a variety of BoPs. Have to say its been a fun experience and I really enjoyed the Commander levels, which I found to be fairly well balanced - if we played well as a team we won, if the Feds played as a team they won - seemed pretty even to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by foesbane View Post
Captain Summary (Captain rank 2) : Fed had the advantage up to this rank. Tactics and firepower are decidedly FED controlled. However, Captain is the start of the big guns.

KDF Rules in this rank. Vorcha cruiser is the big difference. Being able to mount Dual HVY cannons on cruisers is the standout ability. Fed beam cruisers just can't go toe v toe with a Vorcha. BOP is a death trap IMHO. Vocha is a KDF/FED engineers dream.


More to come.....

Otep
If I had to say, I'd have said that Captain level favoured the Feds more than Commander level - the BoP at T4 feels like no real upgrade over the T3 one for instance. Certainly having enjoyed Commander PvP, when I made it to Captain I was initially getting my arse handed to me very quickly. That said I've acclimatised to Captain level now and feel much more at home but again it seems that the better organised team (usually the Klingons) wins more than a particular faction / ship combo. I haven't tried any of the Klingon cruisers though, so they may swing the balance toward Klingons.

As for the BoP being a death trap, I have friends who fly one and do well and I think I was teamed with you for a few games yesterday, I'm by no means an expert player but I think my stats from those games would show that the BoP is far from being a death trap...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 62
01-02-2011, 06:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by foesbane View Post
Boo on your statistics...20 isn't enough sure. You try doing more than that per level?

It's good enough for this study. You want to do 1000 pvp matches to get a good stat bed, then go for it.



EDIT: PVP Statistics update through Captain rank on initial post...
Well i have been lvl'in up a Fed Sci, in a sci ship and thus far from start to cmdr 6 i have lost a total of 4 matches, not sure how many i have won but it has been a fair number. The match i lost vs kdf e had an escort and a cruiser on 0 heals (4 on each team) I didn't think it was possible to have 0 anymore unless you tried really hard not to heal like Zorina. The fed on i lost there were a couple of good feds i had seen on that side and i almost had the kdf team again. Heavy loss 5-15 tho i still healed for 250k, they however ensured i was killed on sight. Two of the other matches were at LC lvl when i had x3 players from TSI lvl'in kdf alts, tho i also won two games vs them so worked out even

The other games i have been winning 15-0 or 15-2 and doing about 250-400k in heals and about 100-150k damage. I am stacking apd, x2tss,x2hz,sci team which i use to keep players up and hope they have an empts or an engi team to assist.

If you take a snap shot of my games you might be inclined to assume the feds are generally a more poweful side or their ships are superior to kdf ships which leads to these lop sided results. The simple truth is that in a match i am a far more influential player on the outcome of a fight than most. To use a Zorina quote i stack win.

I lost when the quality of my team is so low compaired to the other side that i cannot redress the balance, another player might be able able to do that because they have a different build or are just plain old better than me.

Therre are team builds at the VA lvl that do make it a little less about player skill and a lttle more about ship composition or we would see a greater mix of ships at high end pvp. However for the most part 99% of the time as has been said so many times before player ability and experience count for a huge amount and only when you have equally skilled players will the ship they brought to the fight start to have an influence on outcome.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 63
01-02-2011, 08:18 PM
I do think that the KDF superiority in cloaked vessels and the increased variety of ship classes that can use cannons are great advantage.

But in the end, Klingons are just better PvP players.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 64
01-02-2011, 09:08 PM
@OP,

Please give up on this charade. It was amusing at first, but now its getting tiresome.

You will find that the lesser experienced players are the ones *****ing and moaning. I even thought it would be amusing to see your research, but looking at your statistics, I am finding flaws in your research.
What are the controlled conditions, what variables are you taking into account?

So far, all I have seen is a bunch of numbers thrown up with almost no control to the conditions. What was the configuration of ships/captains on both factions, what equipment was used, etc.
Right now as it stands you have no control over your situation. If we we're just to stick to federation, and had a team of only tactical cruiser captains versus science and engineering mixed ships, the latter team is more likely to win consistently. The exact same thing applies to feds vs klinks. You are not taking a methodically enough approach to this experiment.

You should also use each of the different class captains in your experiment/research, because the outcomes will be different.

IF you really want to make this work, send me a private message, and I will help you out in getting this set up so that it may possibly be taken with half a grain of salt.

EDIT: please don't mind the bad grammar. My phones auto correct is annoying as hell
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 65
01-03-2011, 02:29 AM
OP is correct, KDF *is* more advantaged..


They generally have far more experience in PvP.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 66
01-03-2011, 06:12 AM
@OP,

Do not worry, some among the KDF (like myself) are experimenting with "handicappers" to even out the advantaged nature of the KDF. I personally am trying prodigiuos amounts of beer and smoke to bring offset the advantages of being Klingon. I will let you how it works out.


So if you ever see a single BoP flying in erratic circles and bumping into asteroids, you'll know its working, so feel free to attack such targets at all times.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 67
01-03-2011, 08:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by apt.pupil
@OP,

Please give up on this charade. It was amusing at first, but now its getting tiresome.

You will find that the lesser experienced players are the ones *****ing and moaning. I even thought it would be amusing to see your research, but looking at your statistics, I am finding flaws in your research.
What are the controlled conditions, what variables are you taking into account?

So far, all I have seen is a bunch of numbers thrown up with almost no control to the conditions. What was the configuration of ships/captains on both factions, what equipment was used, etc.
Right now as it stands you have no control over your situation. If we we're just to stick to federation, and had a team of only tactical cruiser captains versus science and engineering mixed ships, the latter team is more likely to win consistently. The exact same thing applies to feds vs klinks. You are not taking a methodically enough approach to this experiment.

You should also use each of the different class captains in your experiment/research, because the outcomes will be different.

IF you really want to make this work, send me a private message, and I will help you out in getting this set up so that it may possibly be taken with half a grain of salt.

EDIT: please don't mind the bad grammar. My phones auto correct is annoying as hell
Thanks for your feedback. The only control that is even feasibly possible is that I PUG on every match. Using premade teams would totally invalidate the data as everyone well knows a good premade would beat almost any PUG. If I notice the same people on the same team match after match, I throw that data out as it's not usable.

I do have more in-depth detail about every match in so far as recording certain tactics if they can be easily spotted.

I'm not sure how you'd propose the recording of everyones equipment. That's just unrealistic. In any case, I'll continue to record matches and publish all the details once I have gotten to VA and have enough matches.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 68
01-03-2011, 08:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by foesbane View Post
Thanks for your feedback. The only control that is even feasibly possible is that I PUG on every match. Using premade teams would totally invalidate the data as everyone well knows a good premade would beat almost any PUG. If I notice the same people on the same team match after match, I throw that data out as it's not usable.

I do have more in-depth detail about every match in so far as recording certain tactics if they can be easily spotted.

I'm not sure how you'd propose the recording of everyones equipment. That's just unrealistic. In any case, I'll continue to record matches and publish all the details once I have gotten to VA and have enough matches.
there is another way it could be done with a little better control over all the little variables. It is a feature that got added in the "last PvP update" patch. Of course, you would need to find volunteers, and not everyone may be up for testing, but there are ways and means.

In my experience in STO- the only times I really need to worry about losing to Klingons is in the Rear Admiral/Vice Admiral ranks, and the reason behind that is fairly obvious. Still waiting on Cryptic to fix that issue however
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 69
01-03-2011, 10:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by apt.pupil
there is another way it could be done with a little better control over all the little variables. It is a feature that got added in the "last PvP update" patch. Of course, you would need to find volunteers, and not everyone may be up for testing, but there are ways and means.

In my experience in STO- the only times I really need to worry about losing to Klingons is in the Rear Admiral/Vice Admiral ranks, and the reason behind that is fairly obvious. Still waiting on Cryptic to fix that issue however
Soylent Green is long-term KDF players?

Mustrum "Still hasn't watched that movie" Ridcully
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