Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 81
01-06-2011, 01:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigduckie
and it doesnt defeat the purpose to the system. when you play a game and are reviewing it, can you give it 5 stars a million times because you think its great?
If a system is using total plays as a metric to determine a result, of course it would defeat the purpose to allow people to have their playthrough count only one time.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 82
01-06-2011, 02:07 PM
i give up.
Quote:
I'm not crazy! No! No! Echo! I'm not crazy! I'm not crazy!
total unique plays
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 83
01-06-2011, 02:12 PM
Well they say you can lead a horse to water... anyhoo, this has diverged from the OPs question just a tad.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 84 Reward via merit
01-06-2011, 05:59 PM
I think everybody can agree that a limit per account is needed but they could waive that for the good authors by the following:=

1 additional slot opened for each 4 star authored mission (min. 10 discreet reviews)
2 additional slots opened for each 5 star authored mission (min. 10 discreet reviews)

Individual authors can then delete their own missions to fit within the above aggregate totals.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 85
01-06-2011, 07:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tykeng
I think everybody can agree that a limit per account is needed but they could waive that for the good authors by the following:=

1 additional slot opened for each 4 star authored mission (min. 10 discreet reviews)
2 additional slots opened for each 5 star authored mission (min. 10 discreet reviews)

Individual authors can then delete their own missions to fit within the above aggregate totals.
I'm curious why you used the word "discreet"? It seems like the word "distinct" would have made sense there, but maybe I'm missing your meaning.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 86
01-07-2011, 03:59 AM
After seeing the opinions raised I can understand the need for a limit. Given the current 'status' of the search options for the Foundry review screen it would be extremely tedious to delve through many under-par missions to find the gems you like playing.

However, I often go out of my way to play the missions that have received no ratings, low ratings and no/low reviews. I have been pleasantly surprised by the competence and creativity of many of them - in not just the story, but the simple things like transitioning to places and how it was handled and also in the ingenuity of getting around the current beta drawbacks or limitations to story-telling (using volcanic flowers under NPCs to enable you to interact with what seems to be the npcs etc).

My point is that having a limit in one way restricts the authors of mission who have not gotten enough attention to 'qualify' for more slots or who do not have the money to 'aquire' more slots because they must destroy one of their missions to have a chance at making another which will garner attention.

Of course that point can be argued as mute if we take the line of "Well it is up to the author to advertise their mission, in channels ingame and on the forums - "Come play my mission, here are details.."" and indeed I would like to see that type of 'marketing' for the communities attention. It should raise the level of quality across the board as people will want to attract attention, surely?

The problem I see with that being the only way to get your free slots (i.e. attention & great reviews) is that we may end up nuturing the creation of mission-formats that appeal to the wider audience. Like the episode season closers/openers of startrek. We might be doing damage to the also nuturing the creation of those mid-tv-season episodes (some terrible, but some truely making Star Trek , trek)..

i.e. (in theory)

I have eight slots. I need to attract attention, and with that attention I must get high ratings. What will I put into my mission? Well what does the mass audience like? They like A, B and C. So I will base my mission around that to have the highest chance of success - because I really want to qualify for those free slots.

What is more likely to 'sell' to the community... a mission about a new creative and innovative idea (in some ways) but one in which you are risking a very negative review - or something that you know people will like and rank highly so you can get your slots?

i.e. think of how real life marketing works, for instance we always see a new film advertised with a deep voice because that is an industry-advertising standard to attract our interest in what is being portrayed. Is it so wild a notion to suggest that after a while of having the Foundry on live, mission authors may do the same? Might we end up with exactly the types of mission we wanted to avoid? Repetitive and similar in nautre specifically targeted to only 'attract high reviews' and appeal to the masses like a Michael Bay movie?

Or do we want to have a system which will allow those obscure, those bizzare and those sometimes painfully funny, distortedly poignant or otherwise engaging missions are also encouraged and not hindered by a technical quota on what does and does not qualify as a 'worthy' mission to unlock free slots.

Such missions that will not garner widespread attention or good reviews may still be good. Much like many episodes in ST which may have had terrible main-storylines (mid season) but nevertheless were instrumental at times to develop character depth through side-stories.

Some missions will not be about ship battles, diplomatic affairs to end galaxy-wide wars and so on - they may take inspiration from a loving Godfather caring for his godchild while her mother is far away and in danger (the Wildmans) - how can it compete on the same level for the mass audience as an action thriller versus insurmountable odds and a great pace of action adventure and mystery etc.

We want both right? right?

I don't wish to ramble or de-rail my own thread, but I feel that Cryptic should engage with us before release about the issue of limitations and ways to increase that because of my above rationale. Limits will restrict many people from telling many different types of stories, the lush diversity which - up to now - I had felt the Foundry would be a bastion for.

We need to encourage the debate and get some feedback from what is in the minds of the developers in my view. Its not about demanding what they should do, its about providing to them our thoughts, and trying to compromise surely on how we wish to play this game.

Technically speaking, it would be nice to get an insight into exactly how much 'system resources' an average mission does in fact take up. As we have seen through the use of the Jpeg character pictures holding your character's visual information - perhaps the missions are saved to Cryptic's servers in a highly compressed form - which means the demand for loading and everything else will rest on the user's end? Could this allow for a larger limit as standard?

I remember last year that there was a healthy debate about the amount of character slots you had by default on game launch - so this discussion shares similarities to that - being about system resources.

I would implore any reading developer, community manager etc and of course the community itself to encourage this discussion before we see Foundry on Live. Many games companies have deployed features that impacted negatively on the 'view of the game' because such details were left to the last minute. Being in beta we should be able to talk about it without risking our current image - which we have worked hard over this year to keep good (seeing the latest mmorpg wins).

So, there must be a limit (as other posts have convinced me of now). But the developers will need to address what is fair to set the limit at by default. What qualifies for more slots (if applicable) and if there will be a multiple choice for doing so (by it C-Store and ingame), what system of free-upgrade will apply. Will it encourage the creation of mass-appealing missions or will it also support those missions that delve into unique but less 'popular' subject matter.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 87
01-07-2011, 06:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tykeng
I think everybody can agree that a limit per account is needed but they could waive that for the good authors by the following:=

1 additional slot opened for each 4 star authored mission (min. 10 discreet reviews)
2 additional slots opened for each 5 star authored mission (min. 10 discreet reviews)

Individual authors can then delete their own missions to fit within the above aggregate totals.
I agree with the spirit of what you're saying, yet I think 10 discreet/distinct reviews with 4 or 5 star ratings is way too low. It would still be far too easy for those in large fleets to rack up free story slots quickly, which will only serve to add to the total number of stories to sift through.

IIRC a player authored story in the Mission Architect of CoH needs several thousand good reviews to be considered a "Hall of Fame" arc. Once that several thousand good reviews is achieved, a free story slot is given to the author.

Just my 2 quatloos, but writing stories for the singular purpose of unlocking more free story slots is missing the true intent of the Foundry. Writing a story that you as an author want to write regardless of how others may like it, or writing a story is enjoyed by friends and other players alike is the real reward. Any free story slot that may come as a result of many good reviews is just a bonus.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 88
01-07-2011, 11:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shard-Warrior View Post
I agree with the spirit of what you're saying, yet I think 10 discreet/distinct reviews with 4 or 5 star ratings is way too low. It would still be far too easy for those in large fleets to rack up free story slots quickly, which will only serve to add to the total number of stories to sift through.

IIRC a player authored story in the Mission Architect of CoH needs several thousand good reviews to be considered a "Hall of Fame" arc. Once that several thousand good reviews is achieved, a free story slot is given to the author.
Unfortunately, STO doesn't have that many active players. 100K accounts maybe, but how many are actually active?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 89
01-08-2011, 06:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolderine
Unfortunately, STO doesn't have that many active players. 100K accounts maybe, but how many are actually active?
No one really knows exact subscription numbers. All they have is general ideas. CoH would appear to have roughly the same amount of subscribers and the Hall of Fame works just fine there.

Making it too easy for good authors to obtain more free story slots also means you're making it too easy for all the bad authors too, who will quickly clutter up the Foundry with nonsense missions that have to be sifted through.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 90
01-11-2011, 04:12 AM
Another reason for having a way to increase the limit occured to me today after finishing off my first run through the Devidian series.

Playing through the missions in that series it became obvious the Devs were looking at ways to increase the difference between the various types of Captain, with dialog options dependent on your choice of speciality. I'd already thought of this but it had slipped my mind, as it's something I would like to build into my missions.

The problem I'm going to have is that my initial story outline actually splits into three before converging again at the end. My plan was to have a different route for Tactical/Science/Engineering Captains, with the first mission telling you what mission of mine you should play next based on your speciality. Of course, people would be free to try the Tactical mission as a Science Captain as none of the missions would be "locked" in any way.

This sort of differentiation is something that is vitally needed in STO to my mind, and something which is sorely lacking at present. However, with an arbitrary limit and no realistic way to raise it, it would make it difficult for authors who have similar plans to flesh out these class differences.

As for the comment someone made about "You can make the mission as long as you want to compensate", well, I think it's been shown time and time again that the majority of the STO player base fits firmly into the "casual" bracket (ignoring the vocal minority on the forum of course!) and while you may very well be happy to sit through a 4 hour mission, they (and myself) do not have the time to slog through such a thing and I'm sure many authors will be looking to reach as wide an audience as possible!
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