Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 91
01-23-2011, 03:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Commander_Knuhteb
Still, the likihood of them being made playable as Trueway seems next to nill at this point unless the Dominion faction is introduced of which they could be a subfaction. Please read through http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...d.php?t=198434 to understand why.
Read it, and can't agree. The True Way has clearly shown they are capable of being a major nuisance and they seem to have a lot of shady ties to or friends in the Cardassian government. A faction does not have to be 100% equal to the others to be playable and of interest - otherwise this would disqualify the Ferengi or any other neutral smuggler faction as well.

And this is not even including the possibility of further story developments such as the True Way gaining control over Cardassia Prime again in the same way that the Romulans managed to get their stuff sorted out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Commander_Knuhteb
Aside from an independent Ferengi Alliance, people are much more in favor of a smuggler/trader race independent neutral faction than the Cardasians.
This has nothing to do with Ferengi, though. Apart from the Ferengi species likely being part of the character selection for such a "faction". As quoted from the Path to 2409, the Ferengi Alliance is too close to the Federation to be truly considered neutral.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 92
01-23-2011, 03:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valias
Read it, and can't agree. The True Way has clearly shown they are capable of being a major nuisance and they seem to have a lot of shady ties to or friends in the Cardassian government. A faction does not have to be 100% equal to the others to be playable and of interest - otherwise this would disqualify the Ferengi or any other neutral smuggler faction as well.

And this is not even including the possibility of further story developments such as the True Way gaining control over Cardassia Prime again in the same way that the Romulans managed to get their stuff sorted out.

This has nothing to do with Ferengi, though. Apart from the Ferengi species likely being part of the character selection for such a "faction". As quoted from the Path to 2409, the Ferengi Alliance is too close to the Federation to be truly considered neutral.
Ok, so you're going to disagree with myself and about 20 other users, quite a few of them senior members, that the most logical place for the trueway is as a Romulan ally? Are you also going to disagree with the same people that the storyline has the Cardassian government moving towards a possible Federation alliance? Again, read though Parallaxe's post, then talk to me.

I also misstated something earlier. I meant to say that the race-independent neutral faction would include races from the Ferengi Alliance, not the alliance itself. Thanks for pointing that out. The faction would most certainly lose it's neutrality.

"A faction does not have to be 100% equal to the others to be playable and of interest - otherwise this would disqualify the Ferengi or any other neutral smuggler faction as well." Yes, I agree with this. Still, I think the majority of players want a smugglers/traders faction more than a playable Trueway. You haven't addressed this yet.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 93
01-23-2011, 03:31 PM
The Cardassians would just be another conquerer faction. They would take weaker systems to get what they wanted. Just the same old same old in a Cardassian skin.

Where as the Ferengi alliance or mercenary faction would be trading with all sides. So you could do things like let them have reputation gains with the Federation and other factions. So they could do fleet actions or STF's with another if they had enough reputation.

Instead of being issued a ship each tier they could get quest to steal one.

Give a different feel to STO instead of serving a government you would be serving yourself. Add new element in STO operating in the shadows but out in the open. Kind of like the Mafia.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 94
01-23-2011, 03:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Commander_Knuhteb
Ok, so you're going to disagree with myself and about 20 other users, quite a few of them senior members, that the most logical place for the trueway is as a Romulan ally?
Will you be angry at me when I am pointing out that the only one proposing that was you?

That said, it would not change my opinion anyways even if it were as you claimed. Senior forum membership does not equal infallibility, and 20 people making mistakes does not mean that the 21st has to follow suit just because he would trust in the former.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Commander_Knuhteb
Are you also going to disagree with the same people that the storyline has the Cardassian government moving towards a possible Federation alliance?
I did not imply this anywhere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Commander_Knuhteb
Still, I think the majority of players want a smugglers/traders faction more than a playable Trueway. You haven't addressed this yet.
I can't address this because I could see it work out either way and I have no means to gauge the community's preferences. So I'd rather not claim something that is inaccurate and instead wait for a new poll or something.

I feel a certain amount of hostility coming from your direction, though, so I'd rather not continue this conversation. I've stated my opinion, and this is all I wanted.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 95
01-23-2011, 03:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Englebert
The Cardassians would just be another conquerer faction. They would take weaker systems to get what they wanted. Just the same old same old in a Cardassian skin.

Where as the Ferengi alliance or mercenary faction would be trading with all sides. So you could do things like let them have reputation gains with the Federation and other factions. So they could do fleet actions or STF's with another if they had enough reputation.

Instead of being issued a ship each tier they could get quest to steal one.

Give a different feel to STO instead of serving a government you would be serving yourself. Add new element in STO operating in the shadows but out in the open. Kind of like the Mafia.
Not necessarily. There are quite a few plot directions Cryptic could go. For one, the Obsidian Order adds plenty of opportunity for political intrigue. Players could play as an operative class where their job is to infiltrate and destabilize other governments. You could even take deceit to unseen levels by using your advancement in the Diplomatic Corps. as a means for gaining access to government buildings and documents. Still, I don't want to digress. Since the likelihood of adding an independent Ferengi alliance isn't high, let's focus on how to implement the neutral Smugglers/Traders faction. Varias, if you wish to discuss this further, I suggest we take it to the Cardassian faction threads.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 96
01-23-2011, 04:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valias
Will you be angry at me when I am pointing out that the only one proposing that was you?
I wonít get angry with you, but I will be annoyed. Thatís just not true. A Romulan-Trueway alliance was proposed as an option by Parallax, and several senior members agreed with it as a viable option.

Members who agreed with it:
Quote:
Originally Posted by USS Parallax
The Cardassian True Way and the Romulans are the only d00ds who haven't had it out. They have common goals and very similar personalities and attitudes.

Do it! Do it NOW!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Azurian View Post
I could see the Romulans allying with the Cardassians, the Obsidian Order and the Tal Shiar did it once before. And they are both in economic troubles. But personally don't want to see anymore military alliances.

The Romulans need to stand alone as they are now.

With the Cardassians, Cryptic needs to keep up the trend of them changing from a miltary power to an economic one (like post WW2 Japan). Which could easily set up a merchant / trade with them, the Ferengi on one side, and the Orion Syndicate on the other.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larrum
If anything I'd say that True way would go one way (Roms) and Cardassia would go another (Feds) if that "civil war" gets bigger.

I'll put bets on the C-store though. Eariler today I happen revise and repost an idea I had back in month 001.

Just put "captured" & refited Npc ships up in the C-store, and along with ship rank add a diplomate req. to it aswell.

Gifts & Spoils


Least A fleet would have the tools to RP the factions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by William-Shatner
What if the Klingon/ Cardassian mix was achieved through a rapid and vicious Klingon thrust to Cardassia.
Including the Cardassians in the KDF would be just as easy if they were subjugated. Klingons commonly make use of conquered races.

As for a Cardassian / Romulan alliance its certainly the most plausible. I for one however think the inclusion of the Hirogen with the Romulans is laughable. They make no sense at all together, one race is all about a huge and powerful government and the other is nomadic and autonimous. I really dont like that they have been thrown together willy nilly the way they have. I mean they are from the depths of the delta quadrant, from inside the borders of Borg space of all things.
Thats just my take on it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klingorion View Post
Never truer words said.

2) would be the most logical

but,

4) would be weird--I like it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valias
That said, it would not change my opinion anyways even if it were as you claimed. Senior forum membership does not equal infallibility, and 20 people making mistakes does not mean that the 21st has to follow suit just because he would trust in the former.
Still, Cryptic is more likely to listen to a majority of reasonable senior members rather just one. By the way, it was never my intention to sound hostile towards you. If I did, I apologize. It's just that every time you respond to one of my suggestions, you seem to dismiss it in an arrogant tone. If you'd like me to respect your opinion, I'll have to ask the same of you.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Valias
I did not imply this anywhere.
You didnít necessarily imply that the Cardassians wouldnít become formal allies of the Federation, but you did say that the Trueway might take over the Cardassian government. What did you mean by this? Did you mean that a Trueway takeover would preclude a formal Cardassian-Federation alliance?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valias
I can't address this because I could see it work out either way and I have no means to gauge the community's preferences. So I'd rather not claim something that is inaccurate and instead wait for a new poll or something.
You can gauge it informally by looking at some of the questions in Ask Cryptic Febrary Edition, as well as several of the threads on Smugglers/traders like my own. Ok, I admit, itís impossible to know exactly how many favor the Cardiís versus a Smuggler/trader faction, but you canít deny itís starting to gain significant traction among forum members.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 97
01-24-2011, 07:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Commander_Knuhteb
I wonít get angry with you, but I will be annoyed. Thatís just not true. A Romulan-Trueway alliance was proposed as an option by Parallax, and several senior members agreed with it as a viable option.
In that case you should have pointed me to the correct thread instead of one where the only person talking about it was you. Telling me I fail to read when you let me run off into a different direction is what gets me annoyed, as it sounds too much like a deliberate attack on my reputation, or rather (as this forum has too many members for individuals to gain a real reputation) an attempt to "disqualify" my posts on this subject as a whole.

Either way, as I already stated, other people's personal interpretation has no effect on my own opinion if the facts are as vague as they are, and neither of us is able to watch into the future. Prior to STO, I'm sure people would not have thought we'd have the Klingons in a war against the Federation, too. This decision seems to irritate a number of people as well. All I know is that the True Way is a larger threat than what some people make it to be. In theory, anything capable of occupying entire colonies is quite able to become its own faction, even if you leave out the idea of them regaining control of Cardassia. Their powerbase is sufficiently strong regardless.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Commander_Knuhteb
It's just that every time you respond to one of my suggestions, you seem to dismiss it in an arrogant tone. If you'd like me to respect your opinion, I'll have to ask the same of you.
I admit that I may have been a bit on the edge in response to how strongly you are "advertising" the Ferengi. Whilst I understand how much and why you like them so much, I perceived some of the previous posts as a rather careless (or arrogant) dismissal of other more famous (Cardassian) or open (non-race specific as opposed to a Ferengi-dominated neutral faction - though I may have misunderstood you on that one) options. It is likely this tainted my replies. Let me assure you that I do not have any quarrel with you and don't intend to pick one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Commander_Knuhteb
You didnít necessarily imply that the Cardassians wouldnít become formal allies of the Federation, but you did say that the Trueway might take over the Cardassian government. What did you mean by this? Did you mean that a Trueway takeover would preclude a formal Cardassian-Federation alliance?
Hmm. There are a lot of ways Cryptic could take this to, all depending on what they want to deliver. It seems clear to me that the current Cardassian government and the Federation are moving towards each other, but it is just as clear that the True Way remains an "unstable element" in this equation. They can either be successful in staging a coup-d'et‚t, be reduced to a mere nuisance, continue on their current level or get wiped out completely. There's too many valid possibilities to nail it down to a single one, which many of the posters you quoted apparently did.

In case of the True Way takeover: Yes, I do think that would preclude a formal alliance, as the official Cardassian government would then be the True Way. The Federation could continue to support a government-in-exile, though. We've had cases like this in real world history, too:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_in_exile

Quote:
Originally Posted by Commander_Knuhteb
Ok, I admit, itís impossible to know exactly how many favor the Cardiís versus a Smuggler/trader faction, but you canít deny itís starting to gain significant traction among forum members.
And I won't. I even advocated it myself.
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