Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
01-17-2011, 05:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordDave View Post
I think his argument is that STO didn't launch awesome.
Plus that whole "set phasers to stun" was just dialog. It didn't make any difference to game mechanics that I saw.
I'm talking about in the final two missions where the NPCs fall down unconscious, and don't disappear because they aren't dead. I don't think they could be vaporised either. It made a visual difference.

I know that people say that the game didn't launch very well, but it's subjective/relative. I have been pretty pleased with the game since I started playing in late Feb/March shortly after the launch. I think it was around Season 1 release, so I didn't experience the "at launch" bugs. I have enjoyed my time in the game and still am.

And STO did recently win the Massively "best new MMO of 2010" and "best MMO launch of 2010" in their reader choice awards... competition was Hello Kitty online, but still - that just shows that you could be worse off if every other MMO launch in 2010 was worse (Final Fantasy 14...)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
01-18-2011, 03:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galactrix View Post
I'm talking about in the final two missions where the NPCs fall down unconscious, and don't disappear because they aren't dead. I don't think they could be vaporised either. It made a visual difference.
Honestly I didn't even notice that they didn't disappear.
But even so, it's a huge waste of resources and doing it on every map is probably not possible. Not without some kind of sacrifice anyway.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
02-01-2011, 03:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordDave View Post
Next, you wrote a Captain's log. Please don't tell my character what to say. He's my character and that's my captain's log, something I am perfectly capable of writing.
....
Dave your post is almost exactly just what I wanted to say in my own review. Glad to know I'm not the only one to feel this way With that in mind:

* I feel that the Captain's logs and supplementals are too wordy. Mission briefings are also lengthy, please edit for space.

In fact, when I read the extended treatise on "too much resources devoted to weapons and war, not enough to intra-species trafficking" I got the nagging feeling that the author is trying to promote some kind of agenda. Okay, so is he going to preach to me the need for social justice to help reintegrate former Borg drones back into mainstream society? Or free healthcare for Viidians to cure the phage? I play STO to get away from poitics, which is an important part of my life but on my terms not someone's else's. Give me a break here

* The "I am ready to engage the squadrons" dialogue should be rewritten because it's the wrong tone of voice.
* Searching the scanner logs should not be activated by a plant on the bridge.
* Enemy starship mobs seem to be too far apart (the last mob before boarding the Naausican slaver ship) or too close together (the first mob).

My one major complaint: Too many obstacles in the hallway to the Warp core. If it's a permanent setting in the Foundry that all of their hallways are filled with crates, I'll happily direct my ire in that direction. But please for the love of Picard, map authors of all types, just get rid of all the junk!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
02-01-2011, 11:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_K.C. View Post
Dave your post is almost exactly just what I wanted to say in my own review. Glad to know I'm not the only one to feel this way With that in mind:

* I feel that the Captain's logs and supplementals are too wordy. Mission briefings are also lengthy, please edit for space.

In fact, when I read the extended treatise on "too much resources devoted to weapons and war, not enough to intra-species trafficking" I got the nagging feeling that the author is trying to promote some kind of agenda. Okay, so is he going to preach to me the need for social justice to help reintegrate former Borg drones back into mainstream society? Or free healthcare for Viidians to cure the phage? I play STO to get away from poitics, which is an important part of my life but on my terms not someone's else's. Give me a break here

* The "I am ready to engage the squadrons" dialogue should be rewritten because it's the wrong tone of voice.
* Searching the scanner logs should not be activated by a plant on the bridge.
* Enemy starship mobs seem to be too far apart (the last mob before boarding the Naausican slaver ship) or too close together (the first mob).

My one major complaint: Too many obstacles in the hallway to the Warp core. If it's a permanent setting in the Foundry that all of their hallways are filled with crates, I'll happily direct my ire in that direction. But please for the love of Picard, map authors of all types, just get rid of all the junk!
That is so funny that you say you play STO to get away from politics. Then you don't really get what Star Trek was all about. It was about political discussions, disguised as a sci fi show. The fact that you don't want any politics with your sci fi says, you don't want Star Trek. You want some other space shooter game. The fact that politics is in the mission is EXACTLY what makes it very much like Star Trek. So funny that so many people here don't understand what Star Trek was all about.

Take the Bajoran Occupation. So many episodes illustrate that the line between the good guys and the bad guys were often blurred, just like in Nazi Germany. Or the Ferengi way of life, totally exploiting people for profit. That's an extreme example of Free Market Capitalism. A very political statement right under your nose. So if a game purports to be Star Trek, then in need politics. Or as I've said before, just call it Space Wars.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
02-01-2011, 11:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordDave View Post
First off, some phasers have stun. Look at a stun hand phaser some time.
Secondly, if all weapons had a stun setting then two things would occur.

1. The shields would never go down so your enemy would basically never die. (plus you can't one hit them or they could one hit you)
2. The bodies would stay. There is a reason why games remove dead NPCs...

Again, you want a simulator, which is fine. STO was never designed for that. It was designed to apeal not only to Star Trek fans but also to non-Star Trek fans. I'm sorry if they have to design missions that don't fit your ideal view all the time but like I said, if you don't like it show us you can do better.
Why would you make Star Trek for non Star Trek fans? That makes no sense. And yeah, you can't kill things with stun because Federation Officers bent over backwards to NOT KILL THINGS. That was a primary goal of the Federation. To seek out not to take out.

Why do you want to kill things? If you want to kill things, you don't want to be in the Federation. You don't want to be a Federation officer. Those people don't join up to kill things! LOL That's my entire point, the Star Trek name has been mutated to satisfy the desire of people to whack things in cyberspace. That's not Star Trek.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
02-02-2011, 05:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by exyle View Post
Why would you make Star Trek for non Star Trek fans? That makes no sense.
A Star Trek GAME for non Star Trek fans. Believe it or not wide audience appeal is something many forms of entertainment attempt to accomplish. It's how you try to get more people to sign up. If you made it strictly for Star Trek fans you then have to define WHICH star trek fans: Casual, RPers, nerds, ect....

Quote:
And yeah, you can't kill things with stun because Federation Officers bent over backwards to NOT KILL THINGS. That was a primary goal of the Federation. To seek out not to take out.
They did, when they weren't at war. Last time I checked, Sisko wasn't concerned about killing Jem Hadar. Picard wasn't worried about killing Borg or Remans. Janeway routinely killed Kazon, Vidiians, borg, and other things.


Quote:
Why do you want to kill things? If you want to kill things, you don't want to be in the Federation. You don't want to be a Federation officer. Those people don't join up to kill things! LOL That's my entire point, the Star Trek name has been mutated to satisfy the desire of people to whack things in cyberspace. That's not Star Trek.
I don't actually care about killing or not. However, if you're in a war stunning the enemy means that you never actually win. Just imagine...

"Sir, we've taken the base. All klingons are stunned."
"Excellent. Begin beaming them to the brig."

"Sir, that first Klingon squad you stunned have woken up and are waking up the rest of the group. We'll be out numbered in a matter of minutes."

Of course that also begs the question of why you can't just beam the enemies into your brig in the first place.

As for starships...
Well how would you design that? Ships goes down to 0% and doesn't blow up? How would you get loot?
Let's say you do loot the remains, do enemy ships repair later?

Frankly, we've seen more ships being destroyed in Star Trek than disabled. Just look at how many ships were destroyed in "Sacrifice of Angels".

And finally: Technologically speaking having enemies stay after they die takes resources and if there's no reason to keep them on the map then why waste the resources?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
02-02-2011, 12:03 PM
Check and check mate!

Quote:
A Star Trek GAME for non Star Trek fans. Believe it or not wide audience appeal is something many forms of entertainment attempt to accomplish. It's how you try to get more people to sign up. If you made it strictly for Star Trek fans you then have to define WHICH star trek fans: Casual, RPers, nerds, ect....
No you don't and there should be more for RP ers, take em away from twitter. And clearly this game WASN'T designed for Star Trek fans, look at all the Klingon grief!

Quote:
They did, when they weren't at war. Last time I checked, Sisko wasn't concerned about killing Jem Hadar. Picard wasn't worried about killing Borg or Remans. Janeway routinely killed Kazon, Vidiians, borg, and other things.
They did everything in their power to AVOID combat. Have you ever WATCHED the show? Janeway ROUTINELY targeted weapons and then "opened a channel," trying to "work things out." Review your dvds.

Quote:
I don't actually care about killing or not. However, if you're in a war stunning the enemy means that you never actually win. Just imagine...

"Sir, we've taken the base. All klingons are stunned."
"Excellent. Begin beaming them to the brig."

"Sir, that first Klingon squad you stunned have woken up and are waking up the rest of the group. We'll be out numbered in a matter of minutes."

Of course that also begs the question of why you can't just beam the enemies into your brig in the first place.
That actually happened in Enterprise and they put the prisoners in crew quarters under heavy guard. Again review our dvds.

Quote:
As for starships...
Well how would you design that? Ships goes down to 0% and doesn't blow up? How would you get loot?
Let's say you do loot the remains, do enemy ships repair later?
There is no "looting" in Star Trek. The very idea is anathema to the Federation, watch the show. In Federation terms you would have to TRADE for upgrades or do the research yourself, or share research with other worlds.

Quote:
Frankly, we've seen more ships being destroyed in Star Trek than disabled. Just look at how many ships were destroyed in "Sacrifice of Angels".
Only if there is an attack. Feddies are like the Jedi, they use force for defense, never for attack. Once a ship reaches a certain level say 5%, it gives up hailing you asking to surrender or takes off limping or at warp speed. That's how most skirmishes end in every series. And that's only one episode.

Quote:
And finally: Technologically speaking having enemies stay after they die takes resources and if there's no reason to keep them on the map then why waste the resources?
Once an enemy dies, have it beamed up by it's shipmates. Enemies RARELY die in Star Trek so it's not an issue. More often than not enemies should flee or you capture them.

I really should be employed by Cryptic to help design this game.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
02-03-2011, 07:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by exyle View Post
No you don't and there should be more for RP ers, take em away from twitter. And clearly this game WASN'T designed for Star Trek fans, look at all the Klingon grief!
Yes because lack of Klingon Content = Not designed for Trek fans...
The lack of Klingon PVE content is primarily due to the game being rushed. They had to choose between doing one really great faction and one poor faction or two mediocre factions. They chose the one most players would relate to. Yes the game was rushed but it was rushed by Atari, not Cryptic.


Quote:
They did everything in their power to AVOID combat. Have you ever WATCHED the show? Janeway ROUTINELY targeted weapons and then "opened a channel," trying to "work things out." Review your dvds.
Yes and how often did they do that when they were at war with the specific group? None.
Let's look at TNG - All good things.
On the Medical ship they got attacked by two klingon ships. Remember what happened? They tried to get them to stop but they didn't even get a reply. Then the Enterprise decloaks and what does it do? Blow one ship to bits. No warning, no hails, no "let's talk this out" just "death".

In Sacrifice of Angels, there is no dialog, no "target weapons" nothing. They line up and try to kill each other.

As I stated, when you're not at war with someone, you try to resolve the issue peacefully. When you are at war, you don't. That's just the way it is.

Oh and you missed the daily with the Breen. You can use diplomacy to beam the prisoners off their ship and not fire a single shot.

Also remember that this is a game and it has to follow some rules. For instance, if you have the ability to perminately disable a ship. so do they. Just imagine if all they had to do was drop the enemy shields and "target weapons". You no longer have weapons for 10 minutes.
The same rules that apply to you should apply to them, otherwise it's not fair.
And what about PVP?
All you'd have to do is disable weapons and you prevent respawns meaning they can easily pick you off one at a time, wait for you to respawn, then do it again. A team of 15 players could easily become a team of 1 with 14 "disabled" ships.


Quote:
That actually happened in Enterprise and they put the prisoners in crew quarters under heavy guard. Again review our dvds.
Didn't watch much of Enterprise. But even so, that's one. It was probably the Klingon Augment episode wasn't it? Well they weren't at war with the Klingons so why kill them?


Quote:
There is no "looting" in Star Trek. The very idea is anathema to the Federation, watch the show. In Federation terms you would have to TRADE for upgrades or do the research yourself, or share research with other worlds.
Yes it is. But it's essential to an MMO. Of course, technically speaking, there's no such thing as ranked weapons either. Or multiple hit kills. So if you want to adhere to the show, you must have ships with fixed abilities, weapons, ect... that do not scale or rank up. (so your phasers at lt. rank should do the same damage as phasers in VA rank) Also, once your personal shields drop: one hit death. This wouldn't be fun for most people and this being a game, it's designed to be fun for most people.

Quote:
Only if there is an attack. Feddies are like the Jedi, they use force for defense, never for attack. Once a ship reaches a certain level say 5%, it gives up hailing you asking to surrender or takes off limping or at warp speed. That's how most skirmishes end in every series. And that's only one episode.
Klingons never surrender.
Romulans don't either.
Nor do Jem'Hadar.
Also:
Enemies shoot once you're in range regardless of if you shoot first or not. I'd call that "an attack".


Quote:
Once an enemy dies, have it beamed up by it's shipmates. Enemies RARELY die in Star Trek so it's not an issue. More often than not enemies should flee or you capture them.
....
Please review your DVDs. Voyager killed many Kazon and Vidiians. Heck, Janeway set her ship to self destruct and blew up an entire ship worth of Vidiians. They also caused a phaser feedback that killed every single kazon on the ship.
Picard killed many borg and remans. Unless you think those were set to "stun".

Also, if you captured them where would they go? A brig is not capable of storing hundreds of enemies, nor is it safe. My little escort can only hold about 50 crew yet you want me to beam over and capture 500 Klingon soldiers? Even IF I wanted to that would be tactically stupid.

Quote:
I really should be employed by Cryptic to help design this game.
Not really. You don't know anything about game design. All you seem to know is what you see on the show. I'm sorry to tell you this but...
TV shows are not games. (except game shows)
You can not, under any circumstance, make a TV show into a video game without sacrificing something. Even in TNG- A Final Unity you had to blow up ships. I destroyed many romulan ships myself.


Look, this is an MMO. That means that each player creates their own captain. You can not write a game centered around an unknown captain and expect it to match a Star Trek story. Here, try this. Imagine TNG but instead of Picard it was Janeway. Same exact dialog and actions.

Now replace Worf with Spock.
Now Seven in place of Data.
Now put Kira in for Riker.

Keep all dialog and actions.

Does it make sense?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29 Lighten up.
02-04-2011, 01:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by exyle View Post
That is so funny that you say you play STO to get away from politics. Then you don't really get what Star Trek was all about. It was about political discussions, disguised as a sci fi show. The fact that you don't want any politics with your sci fi says, you don't want Star Trek. You want some other space shooter game. The fact that politics is in the mission is EXACTLY what makes it very much like Star Trek. So funny that so many people here don't understand what Star Trek was all about.

Take the Bajoran Occupation.
Let's not and just say we did.

STO is a game. Nothing more. If you read politics into every nuance of an online video game, I pity you. Now if you want to get serious about Star Trek the shows, movies, and novels that's another matter. Still even on the small screen, they take a light hand to stuff like racism, discrimination, sexual identity, and that interracial kiss between Kirk and Uhura.

I'm a rightwing Republican living in the States. That political enough for you? I hear about liberals, First Amendment, media bias, angry mobs, partisanship, political grandstanding, and rationalization all the time. It's a cacophony. You don't think I deserve a break from that noise? Too bad because I won't be playing any more missions you may make. JMHO.
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