Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
02-06-2011, 06:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dstahl View Post
for those interested in the technical side of things, the tool works great - so long as you are dealing with your primary character in the cutscene. The problem with space is that you are not your captain - you are your ship which is a completely different type of "entity" and doesn't know how to obey all the acting rules like "go stand here, then do this emote, then walk over there". Your ship goes... HUH?

Despite this - there is still a way to get cutscenes in space - but it involves creating a lot of extra "acting" logic to get the ships to do what you want them to - so not impossible - just takes a ton of time.

You'll notice we do have a new space cutscene in front of Stranded in Space (and there's always the old intro to the Fed tutorial).
that was the same problem with cutscenes in the nwn's toolkit when it originally was released.
what the community did was cloak the real main character and leave him there and create a copy of the main character if you need to see him
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
02-06-2011, 07:56 AM
I did kind of miss having a cutscene in the Vault.

I was, because of what I saw in 'Stranded in Space', Expecting we'd get something that would illustrate our shuttle entering the Vault - like, place the shuttle at a certain position, have it move toward a door, stop, show some indication of the door being hacked open (small Boff flyby text window?), have doors open and the shuttle then flies in and once it gets out of sight from the camera, transition to the next zone.

Another cutscene in the next zone could've shown the shuttle passing through the first door, fly in, then the camera would swivel to be right behind the shuttle and normal gameplay would ensue, with the Boff text window popping up as normal.

...

Yes, the part when we enter the Vault was one I felt was slightly jarring. I expected to have to find my way in, but all I had to do was get close and press F. It made me think "oh, I don't actually have to find a way in beyond just getting past perimeter defenses?". The Vault was an excellent mission and I had tons of fun playing it, but that teeny tiny thing was missing.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
02-06-2011, 09:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dstahl View Post
for those interested in the technical side of things, the tool works great - so long as you are dealing with your primary character in the cutscene. The problem with space is that you are not your captain - you are your ship which is a completely different type of "entity" and doesn't know how to obey all the acting rules like "go stand here, then do this emote, then walk over there". Your ship goes... HUH?
Thank you for the details, Dan! So the "Ground" and "Space" entities are more different than I initially thought. I thought our ship was only our avatar with different "skin" and a different set of controls.

I can imagine what our beloved Gozer will have suffered with the cut-scenes of "Stranded .."

I personally like the cut-scenes much more ground than in space. It's much better than simple dialog boxes. In space, for some reason, it bothers me less. Maybe because I'm seeing the outside of the ship and it makes sense to see the dialog boxes in your BOFF's. In ground is weird because you have them at your side.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24 common sense?
02-06-2011, 09:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dstahl View Post
for those interested in the technical side of things, the tool works great - so long as you are dealing with your primary character in the cutscene. The problem with space is that you are not your captain - you are your ship which is a completely different type of "entity" and doesn't know how to obey all the acting rules like "go stand here, then do this emote, then walk over there". Your ship goes... HUH?

Despite this - there is still a way to get cutscenes in space - but it involves creating a lot of extra "acting" logic to get the ships to do what you want them to - so not impossible - just takes a ton of time.

You'll notice we do have a new space cutscene in front of Stranded in Space (and there's always the old intro to the Fed tutorial).
so, um, pardon me for reminding the devs of a feature weve been asking for for a year now, but the solution would seem to be more of a 'time to add that drivers seat view that everyones been asking for' type of thing. You know, the one where we are sitting in the captains chair, on our bridge, looking at the viewscreen and tactical displays?

this would allow you to put in the movement in for space mode, (which im sure you can do) and, id assume its easy enough to get weapons to fire, but this would also give you the ability to do 'on screen' type of communications (think st:tng) where you are interacting with the other captain. this would give you the needed EMOTE options that are lacking in space, and add a little more realism.

Also, the interstellar space view is much better now, however, perhaps giving us a 'bridge view' option where we are sitting on the bridge and looking at the astrometrics display on a console would be nice. Dont know about you, but i usually use autopilot, and lets face it, staring at the back end of my ship as it travles through more or less empty space gets a bit old after , say,. 30 mins. Not such an issue with transwarp and slipstream, but for those of us with chars below admiral this would be a much wanted improvment.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
02-06-2011, 09:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darren_Kitlor
possibly to play more, watch less.

The cutscenes in Azura were pretty long and I wish they'd only been used on optional objectives, rather than bulking up the whole mission with "I don't get to play anymore" moments.

Of course, what I said is heresy.
I can see what you're saying. However, I also feel if anything, the entering of the vault would have been improved by a cut scene. Just hitting a button, wait for a load screen, then poof you're in, is not the answer either. Can't really think of any other reason one might be needed though. Well maybe upon leaving the vault as well.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
02-06-2011, 10:01 AM
As dstahl said Space cut scenes are somewhat tricky... The tool to make them was designed for ground maps, the editor was primarily made for champs and NWO which has no space gameplay.

The cut scene editor needs to work entirely different for space, but I'm currently bugging our tech team about it and hopefully they will give me what I want

That said however, we are still making them. Frozen (the third Romulan Weekly episode, which is the weekly episode I've been making) has two space cut scenes, and two ground cut scenes.

We try to make them skipable when possible, so some you can skip and some you might not be able to. It just depends on the logic thats going on while the cut scene is being played. In many cases there are things on the map that are changing while the cut scene is playing or in the case of space cut scenes your seeing a real time event happening, that the start of the cut scene has triggered which I can't let you skip, otherwise it makes the mission unplayable.

Goz
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
02-06-2011, 10:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cryptic_Gozer
As dstahl said Space cut scenes are somewhat tricky... The tool to make them was designed for ground maps, the editor was primarily made for champs and NWO which has no space gameplay.

The cut scene editor needs to work entirely different for space, but I'm currently bugging our tech team about it and hopefully they will give me what I want

That said however, we are still making them. Frozen (the third Romulan Weekly episode, which is the weekly episode I've been making) has two space cut scenes, and two ground cut scenes.

We try to make them skipable when possible, so some you can skip and some you might not be able to. It just depends on the logic thats going on while the cut scene is being played. In many cases there are things on the map that are changing while the cut scene is playing or in the case of space cut scenes your seeing a real time event happening, that the start of the cut scene has triggered which I can't let you skip, otherwise it makes the mission unplayable.

Goz
So STO's entire foundation was developed using tools from non-space games?
Damn. STO's creation has WAY too many time saving variables in it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
02-06-2011, 10:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordDave View Post
So STO's entire foundation was developed using tools from non-space games?
Damn. STO's creation has WAY too many time saving variables in it.
Obviously. It wouldn't make an commercial or engineering sense to start from scratch when you already have the tools available.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
02-06-2011, 10:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cryptic_Gozer
We try to make them skipable when possible, so some you can skip and some you might not be able to. It just depends on the logic thats going on while the cut scene is being played. In many cases there are things on the map that are changing while the cut scene is playing or in the case of space cut scenes your seeing a real time event happening, that the start of the cut scene has triggered which I can't let you skip, otherwise it makes the mission unplayable.
I think buried in there might also be a serviceable metric for 'should the cutscene exist or not'.

In Stranded in Space, the cutscenes involving the Azura warping in, the reappearance of the Orions, the cutaway to the sickened crew being beamed out - those really added to the mission, and involved things actually happening around the PCs but not in their immediate sphere of action.

Stuff like generally assembling on the transporter pad... not so much.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
02-06-2011, 10:26 AM
I'm honestly suprised as the amount of ppl who dig the VO work. Though her sentences occasionally sound spliced, T'Nae isn't too bad, but the Remen is kinda typical villain and Temek sounds overly gruff even for a Klingon. I'm no VO professional - yet - but it's the kind of field I take classes for and ultimatedly the kind of work I'd like to do. Speaking for myself, I would have read the parts differently with goal of sounding a little less "typical" and a lot more realistic.

That said, I'm glad the Romulans are getting some love, though I can't figure out how my LT Comm was able to take out a Mogai, but my LT Gen barely scratched the paint.

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