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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
02-07-2011, 03:44 PM
Wow. If the devs needed a good reference for those two ships, they got it.

Also, I didn't realize there were windows on the thinnest portion on the back (aft) of the engineering hull of the Intrepid class.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
02-07-2011, 04:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katic View Post
If it's source could be verified I think it would count as soft canon, only things seen on-screen are hard canon.
I would suggest that directions to production staff intended to ensure what does appear on screen is accurate and consistent carries sufficient weight to be considered hard canon. This isn't the idle speculation or inaccurate mathematics of the size of the Defiant, this is wardrobe being told "these are the ranks, these are their insignia, now damn well get it right".

Can't get much more canon than that.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
02-07-2011, 05:45 PM
That note is scribles on paper, it doesn't indicate who its for, where its from or anything, it is what is is, writing on paper. Nothing more nothing less. Now, put that note on CBS letter head or a TO/FROM indication and a subject line and we could then go some where. Not that i' doubting Drex, just providing a counter point.

and for the record i'm for a complete and total revamp of the ranks anyhow, we need more ensigns and LT JG!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
02-08-2011, 09:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hangover_Boy
wow...I had no idea Crusher was a Commander...always assumed she was Lt Commander.
There were 3 commanders on END-D. Riker, Crusher and...... Troi....
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
02-08-2011, 09:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyGreggy
this is wardrobe being told "these are the ranks, these are their insignia, now damn well get it right".
More like "These are the ranks, these are the insignia for them all - except for commodore. Sure you can extrapolate, but it might be something different, who knows?" The wording is also a bit odd. "1 star commodore" then "2 starfleet admiral?" Obviously a "2 star" is what they were going for, but it does raise the question of what happened to the 1 star admirals, and why there are 1 star commodores. Are there 2 star commodores? It looks like they started with "5 Star Fleet Admiral," and then somehow kept the "fleet" attached to the star throughout. And what happened to vice and rear admirals?

P.s. "Admiral" gets weirder and weirder the longer you look at it.

Edit: according to the Memory Alpha admiral articles, it looks like the ranks of Admirals had Fleet, regular, Vice, and Rear, and then got Rear lower half added at some point. The pips for Rear, regular and Vice each gain a dot after 2365.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
02-08-2011, 10:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyGreggy
I would suggest that directions to production staff intended to ensure what does appear on screen is accurate and consistent carries sufficient weight to be considered hard canon. This isn't the idle speculation or inaccurate mathematics of the size of the Defiant, this is wardrobe being told "these are the ranks, these are their insignia, now damn well get it right".

Can't get much more canon than that.
There's different levels of canon, hard canon, things seen onscreen in the shows and movies which can be taken as in-Trek fact, and soft canon which is unconfirmed info that should be taken with a grain of salt. Production notes, novels, video games (including STO), and cast & crew interviews are all soft canon, which can be contradictory and self-refuting at times.

The part of the note in question (the Commodore rank) was never established as true on-screen, to the point where there's a debate as to whether the Commodore rank survived until the TNG era.

Without use on-screen, the note is, at best, soft canon, rumor and hypothesis, not hard canon fact.

But don't get me wrong, I want the Commodore rank, I want it to be true, I just won't let my personal desires conflict with my evaluation of the facts of the matter.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
02-11-2011, 12:51 PM
The note may not be hard-canon proof of the existence of the commodore rank, yet it makes it far harder to argue that the rank truly was purposefully eliminated in the TNG era. The absence of proof is not the proof of absence, and that little note sorta proves that point.

Anyways, gorgeous renderings of the intrepid and constellation class vessels.
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