Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
02-14-2011, 11:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shikamaru317 View Post
What I don't like is that they have a unique item that is exclusive to a certain group of players. I think items should have multiple, equal effort/time ways to obtain them. Why make lone wolfs do group group content that they hate to get the best piece of equipment in the game.
  • The Borg Engines are not exclusive to any one group of players. Everyone is able to obtain them. All it takes is time, patience and teamwork.
  • The Borg Engines are really not all that great. I would argue that the Aegis set is far better than the Borg set overall.
  • If you want the Borg Gear, do what is required to get it.
  • There are numerous fleets out there who have these STFs on daily farm. Find one that suits you and get your gear.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
02-14-2011, 12:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shikamaru317 View Post
So at this point I've spent 7 or 8 hours on a mission that all the walkthroughs say should only take 2-3. So, why I ask, is it that these rewards aren't available to those that like singleplayer content. It seems totally unfair to exclude those that like singleplayer content from getting items such as this one. I've always hated it when MMOs tried to force groups. Some of us just don't like the stress. Why isn't there an equal time and effort way for lone wolfs to get this warp enhancing item. Why isn't there say a crafting quest that takes the same amount of time as Infected, or an in-game currency way to buy it that takes an equivalent amount of time to save up the currency required. It is bad business to force lone wolfs into groups, only to watch them struggle to complete a mission that requires team work, when they are lone wolfs that have never been good at team work in MMO's.
Then why are you playing an MMO? I'm sorry, but if you want to play an MMO, you can't really expect it NOT to have multiplayer parts to it. And as far as MMOs go, STO is has very little required multiplayer content anyway. About 95% of the content can be played solo, and quite easily too. It's almost laughable to say that an MMO having 5% of the content multiplayer is too much.

And you are not excluded from the gear. You are free to join up with a group that can run it. And there will be more gear coming that is specific to certain aspects of the game. What if the devs make a PVP set obtainable only be winning a certain number of PVP matches? Should the devs really listen to those who complain that they hate PVP and want another way to get the set?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
02-14-2011, 12:31 PM
Here is the only difference I see for ALL the STFs in the PUG and Fleet argument:

(Difference, because Fleet or PUG, everyone runs the same STFs)

Fleets will tend to have the same group of people run them together. So sure, it might be a different 5 today, than it was yesterday, but you mix/match the same player base. Chances are - all those players learned WITH that fleet, so they get to know the "fleet style" version of the STFs as a group. And chances are...if they joined one of the more active and well-known fleets - they WANT to work as a group. It is foremost in their minds to (lack of a better term) conform to the fleet methods and the mannerisms of their fleet-mates.

PUGs - you get everything from Very experience Fleeties, to young kids (and sometimes older adults) who will not think through problems, are just run/gun types who believe that rifle / weapons bank should over come everything, no matter what. And more to the point - You will *rarely* run with the same group of people! So you never learn a style that fits the group. Add to that - a healthy percentage that does NOT want to 'conform" as a group, preferring the 'hero' mode, or well -- listen to anyone else.

This is not the fault of the Devs who made STFs "too hard" -- as evidenced by some of the more experience teams completing them in very commendable times - or making the End Bosses too hard. It is a matter of learning a coordinated effort. There are even folks (some posting on here) that will help you learn it. But - sadly - there are too many PUGs who only understand 'run/gun" and do not watch the chat box.

Until THAT is solved...there will be tons of cries to nerf these missions, which I think is totally wrong. It really does cheapen the hard work that SOME have put in to learn them to a very fine point.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
02-14-2011, 12:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shikamaru317 View Post
It seems totally unfair to exclude those that like singleplayer content from getting items such as this one. I've always hated it when MMOs tried to force groups.
Mmm, yes, I see now...

You're right. What Cryptic should do is shut down their servers and send each player the three CDs that contain all game data and change the name from Star Trek Online to Star Trek: Immediate Gratification.

I notice that you didn't write why it took eight hours. Are you sure you followed the walkthrough?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
02-14-2011, 11:16 PM
To those still saying that this has something to do with me thinking the mission hard, you couldn't be more wrong. The mission difficulty is right where it needs to be to keep raiders happy. In fact, I found most of the mission quite easy, so I can understand players complaints that they nerfed it too much. Really the only part I didn't like was the control room. Since I'm new to Infected, teammates keep putting me on center platform duty, which I find rather easy. What I don't like is spending hours in the control room doing my job quite well, while I watch jumpers flounder about falling in plasma. Now, I can't say for sure that I'd be any better, though I do have jumping experience from another MMO, so I can't judge them, but it seems like no matter how many team changes I try, there's always at least 1 jumper that messes it up for the rest of the team. Add that to the fact that far too many players abandon the team without trying very hard and it makes for one frustrating experience.

But this isn't about the mission. This is about making only one item in the entire game that gives a bonus to players speeds in sector space. Crafters don't get an item that improves speed in sector space. They put in just as much effort and time if not more effort and time than raiders do on STF's. Why don't they get an item that improves sector space travel speeds. PvPers can spend just as much time and effort in PvP matches, where's their sector space speed enhancing items. Some of you are arguing that it's available to anyone since all players can play STF's, but that type of teamwork heavy, stressful gameplay is probaly the least appealing thing in STO to a casual player. Why should a casual player be forced to do a gametype they don't find fun to get a unique bonus. I honestly don't want to see them just copy the item and give it to anybody. Assimilated parts should remain exclusive to STF players. All I want is more items with warp speed bonuses. Making just one item in an entire game with a certain important bonus, and then only giving out that item for a single mission that doesn't appeal to everyone is just wrong. Plain and simple.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
02-14-2011, 11:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RStoney View Post
Here is the only difference I see for ALL the STFs in the PUG and Fleet argument:

(Difference, because Fleet or PUG, everyone runs the same STFs)

Fleets will tend to have the same group of people run them together. So sure, it might be a different 5 today, than it was yesterday, but you mix/match the same player base. Chances are - all those players learned WITH that fleet, so they get to know the "fleet style" version of the STFs as a group. And chances are...if they joined one of the more active and well-known fleets - they WANT to work as a group. It is foremost in their minds to (lack of a better term) conform to the fleet methods and the mannerisms of their fleet-mates.

PUGs - you get everything from Very experience Fleeties, to young kids (and sometimes older adults) who will not think through problems, are just run/gun types who believe that rifle / weapons bank should over come everything, no matter what. And more to the point - You will *rarely* run with the same group of people! So you never learn a style that fits the group. Add to that - a healthy percentage that does NOT want to 'conform" as a group, preferring the 'hero' mode, or well -- listen to anyone else.

This is not the fault of the Devs who made STFs "too hard" -- as evidenced by some of the more experience teams completing them in very commendable times - or making the End Bosses too hard. It is a matter of learning a coordinated effort. There are even folks (some posting on here) that will help you learn it. But - sadly - there are too many PUGs who only understand 'run/gun" and do not watch the chat box.

Until THAT is solved...there will be tons of cries to nerf these missions, which I think is totally wrong. It really does cheapen the hard work that SOME have put in to learn them to a very fine point.
I agree with your viewpoint here. I'm definitely not calling for a nerf like some people think. In fact, I tend to lean more to the side of those wanting it made a bit harder, at least as far as individual enemies go. My problems the day I wrote the OP were two fold. 1. The server issues the day Mine Enemy came out split up the only decent group I've had yet and kept me from likely completing the mission. 2. I'm angry about there only being one item in the whole game that boosts warp speed, the reward from Infected

So really, my post has been heavily misinterpreted. My feedback on the mission is that it was mostly pretty good. I liked the voice work, and the general plot of the mission, though I wasn't too keen on the quantity over quality approach on enemies. 5 people fighting off hundreds of Borg seemed highly uncanonical to me. Other than that the mission difficulty was fine, except for the level of teamwork required in the last part. As you said, that level of teamwork is nearly impossiblle to get due to the nature of random groupings. They've made it so only fleets stand a real chance.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
02-15-2011, 12:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shard-Warrior View Post
I would argue that the Aegis set is far better than the Borg set overall.
Off topic.
Im sorry but I disagree 100%.
I think the Borg set is far superior. The procs are so much more usefull. Especially the multi regenrative shield array you get when equipping 3 parts of the Borg set.
But to each their own :p
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
02-15-2011, 08:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shikamaru317 View Post
Add that to the fact that far too many players abandon the team without trying very hard and it makes for one frustrating experience.
I can understand your frustration, yet I would ask you why you don't join a fleet that runs these STFs on a regular basis? There are many, many fleets (and even individual players) out there who run these daily and are open to bringing non-members along. If you see someone with the complete set, ask if their fleet is looking for new people. Who knows? You might wind up making some new friends.

Quote:
But this isn't about the mission. This is about making only one item in the entire game that gives a bonus to players speeds in sector space.
Which you can easily obtain by finding a decent group of people to run "Infected" with.

Quote:
Some of you are arguing that it's available to anyone since all players can play STF's, but that type of teamwork heavy, stressful gameplay is probaly the least appealing thing in STO to a casual player.
Not to be rude and my apologies if it comes across as such, but reading this says to me that you would like some of the best gear in the game for little to no effort at all. I know this is not what you meant, but it does come across that way.

Quote:
Assimilated parts should remain exclusive to STF players. All I want is more items with warp speed bonuses. Making just one item in an entire game with a certain important bonus, and then only giving out that item for a single mission that doesn't appeal to everyone is just wrong. Plain and simple.
Think of it in terms of incentive. The Borg set is an incentive to get you to try the STFs. If you could craft them (or something equal), would you ever bother with the STFs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by f1restarter
Off topic.
Im sorry but I disagree 100%.
I think the Borg set is far superior. The procs are so much more usefull. Especially the multi regenrative shield array you get when equipping 3 parts of the Borg set.
But to each their own :p
Depends on your playstyle really. The proc does not fire every time (nice when it does though) and the overall Borg shield value is much lower than the Aegis set. The Aegis Engines also give you better manueverability in combat.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
02-15-2011, 09:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shard-Warrior View Post
I can understand your frustration, yet I would ask you why you don't join a fleet that runs these STFs on a regular basis? There are many, many fleets (and even individual players) out there who run these daily and are open to bringing non-members along. If you see someone with the complete set, ask if their fleet is looking for new people. Who knows? You might wind up making some new friends.
I may end up having to do that. I'm just kind of wary of joining a fleet. I have had a lot of experience with fleets/clans/guilds/gaming communities, some good, some bad, but the last clan I was in had some major drama that tore it apart after it had gone storng for a long time, and a lot happened with that drama, alot of feelings got hurt, and I kind of swore off clans after that, becaus I never wanted to deal with that level of drama in my life again. But, it seems that it may be neccessary if want my warp speed boost, so I guess I'll start looking for a decent clan. If anyone has a fun, helpful fleet that likes to run STF's, let me know.


Quote:
Which you can easily obtain by finding a decent group of people to run "Infected" with.
The key is in finding a good group, which so far I haven't been successful at due to the random nature of PUGs.


Quote:
Not to be rude and my apologies if it comes across as such, but reading this says to me that you would like some of the best gear in the game for little to no effort at all. I know this is not what you meant, but it does come across that way.
That's definitely not what I'm going for. I just like multiple the idea of having multiple, equal effort ways to obtain an item (in this case not an exact item, but another item with a warp speed bonus). So, it takes 3 painstaking hours of effort to complete Infected. How about about a crafting mission that takes 3 or 4 hours to complete. How about letting players collect emblems for a few days to buy an item with a warp speed boost (which in the end would take more time and effort than an STF if the emblem amount was high enough. That's what I want, more items with that extremely useful warp speed bonus, but not more ways to obtain the Assimilated Set, that should remain exclusive to players that put time and effort into STF's.


Quote:
Think of it in terms of incentive. The Borg set is an incentive to get you to try the STFs. If you could craft them (or something equal), would you ever bother with the STFs?
Like I said above, the Assimilated set needs to stay exclusive to STFs. Players need an exclusive reward for completing STF's. But what about end game PvPers, what about end-game emblem collectors. Where's their exclusive set? Neither the emblem stores nor the high end PvP stores have any exclusive items. Why can't they by a unique set. IMO opinion, the way the system is set up, it's like Cryptic is saying that Raiders are better than everyone else so they get a special set with an exclusive bonus (admittedly they do have the Aegis set for end-game crafters, but that's only 2/4 end game branches being rewarded). Forget the end-game PvPers and emblem collectors, they aren't good enough to get exclusive sets, they can have some random purple Mk X's with nothing but some radom accuracy and citical hit bonuses. They don't need a cool set to reward the effort they've put into their respective branches. To me it feels like a slap in the face if you prefer emblem collecting or PvP.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
02-15-2011, 10:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shikamaru317 View Post
I may end up having to do that. I'm just kind of wary of joining a fleet. I have had a lot of experience with fleets/clans/guilds/gaming communities, some good, some bad, but the last clan I was in had some major drama that tore it apart after it had gone storng for a long time, and a lot happened with that drama, alot of feelings got hurt, and I kind of swore off clans after that, becaus I never wanted to deal with that level of drama in my life again. But, it seems that it may be neccessary if want my warp speed boost, so I guess I'll start looking for a decent clan. If anyone has a fun, helpful fleet that likes to run STF's, let me know.
I could not agree with you more on this. Finding a good group that suits you can be a real chore and it truly is hit or miss. I'll PM you the info on the fleet I am in... perhaps you might like to join. All the STFs are run regularly - at least a few times a week. Even if you decide you might not want to join, it is always good to know a few players familiar with how to run these and have them on a friends list.


Quote:
That's definitely not what I'm going for. I just like multiple the idea of having multiple, equal effort ways to obtain an item (in this case not an exact item, but another item with a warp speed bonus).
I know what you meant.
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