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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
Finally got around to repeating my earlier test (http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...d.php?t=197477) with an escort on my cruiser alt. She's got some warp core training so the test was very dirty, but it's good enough for a general conclusion.

As far as I could tell from my previous BoP testing with no skill modifiers, impulse engines grant a fixed amount of speed per power at all power settings, meaning that the actual speed vs power setting graph is linear for all three engine types, and not a curve as most seem to expect. The difference comes in that combat has a higher 'base speed' than the hyper, but adds less speed per power, allowing the hyper to eventually 'cross over' and start exceeding the combats at some particular power setting.

The results from my recent testing confirmed a theory of mine from the previous testing: The different impulse modifiers on the different shiptypes also changes the crossover point.

My earlier testing found that for BoPs/Escorts(Impulse Modifier: 0.20) it was at approximately 43 power setting. The testing I just did with a Cruiser(Impulse modifier: 0.15) found that the crossover point was at 57 power setting(with a speed difference of 0.03 in favor of the hyper).

The numbers I've generally seen used were from a DSSV(Impulse Modifier: 0.17), and had the crossover point somewhere near 50-ish, which is consistent with my theory.

What seems to be happening is that the balance between the base speed and the power per speed isn't scaling identically between ships with different impulse modifiers. As far as I can tell, the higher the impulse modifier, the lower the crossover point is (meaning it's even LOWER for delta flyers!)

What this means then, is that there's actually four different sets of impulse efficiency "curves", one for each impulse modifier in use.

The effect being that hyper impulse engines are more viable for escorts, BOPs, and Raptors than any other ship type, and least viable on cruisers and carriers, with science vessels jammed in the middle somewhere.

This is gonna take some serious analysis-ing.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
02-16-2011, 01:39 AM
Interesting! I am looking forward to that serious analysing.

An interesting side-point here is - turn rates and engines. I think that relation isn't quite clear either.

From my experience no ship ever seems to have its supposed to turn rate displayed - regardless of power settings or skill training involved. Impulse Engines always seem to add something to the turn rate, but how do they do so?

Maybe testing with different ships and different engines you'll also find out this. (Personally I hope for charts. And Pie!)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
02-16-2011, 02:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
Interesting! I am looking forward to that serious analysing.

An interesting side-point here is - turn rates and engines. I think that relation isn't quite clear either.

From my experience no ship ever seems to have its supposed to turn rate displayed - regardless of power settings or skill training involved. Impulse Engines always seem to add something to the turn rate, but how do they do so?

Maybe testing with different ships and different engines you'll also find out this. (Personally I hope for charts. And Pie!)
Tbh I don't know if I got the personal gumption for charts... I don't have ready access at the moment to enough respecs to be able to spec out of my power level enhancers and back again. My alt might later, at which point I could get some good clean data.

It's slightly complicated though because there are minor fluctuations in the maximum speed, apparently related to speed dropping ever so slightly in turns and not all the way coming back sometimes.

Turn rates, however...I don't know if they're different on different engine types, I haven't checked that.

You can however access your turn rate 'stat', it's on one of the tabs for your ship's info, but like many of them, is only accurate when you're on a space map that isn't sector space(your skills aren't applied in sector space or on the ground). To my knowledge, they don't vary between engine types, but I can check that one real quickly here in a minute.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
02-16-2011, 02:37 AM
Yes, I know where to look for the turn rate, the "problem" (if we want to call it that) seems to me that the turn rate displayed is never the one your ship should have. Normally, this is to be expected, since you have different power levels and are trained in ship captain skills. But even ignoring all those factors, merely equipping an impulse engine gives a different value. And not equipping an impulse engine doesn't help either...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
02-16-2011, 04:18 AM
Looking at your post and looking back at the Engines Canne Take it. It seems that the mechanics posted there seem to still be relevant.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
02-16-2011, 04:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taran_Tatsuuchi View Post
Looking at your post and looking back at the Engines Canne Take it. It seems that the mechanics posted there seem to still be relevant.
Actually...that looks about right. Funny, never see that one on the forums! All you ever see it seems like are some numbers from DSSVs and a lot of people thinking they curve.

Well good for you. O.o

And I feel like an idjit for only looking at one page on that site. >(
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
02-16-2011, 04:27 AM
If you notice, that was posted back in march of 2010, nearly a year ago. And as it's not updated anymore it's not surprising it's not linked much.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
02-16-2011, 04:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taran_Tatsuuchi View Post
If you notice, that was posted back in march of 2010, nearly a year ago. And as it's not updated anymore it's not surprising it's not linked much.
actually, I'm reading into it now, and some of it's not quite right...he generalizes the speeds versus the power settings assuming the crossover is at 'about 50'(missing that it varies by ship types), and accidentally implies that the curves...curve. I'll be checking his formula, but some of his generalizations seem...a bit off the mark.

Edit: Also, there's now more skills affecting your ability in a ship, so the bonus 'cap' at 25% might not be in place anymore either.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
02-16-2011, 04:37 AM
Alot can change in a year, I'm not saying it's completely accurate still, but the formula listed seems to correlate with your findings some.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
02-16-2011, 04:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taran_Tatsuuchi View Post
Alot can change in a year, I'm not saying it's completely accurate still, but the formula listed seems to correlate with your findings some.
It does, the numbers for the engine modifiers in particular are very, very similar to my findings in the BoP for the difference per 5 power setting, enough so that I think he's on to something and have whipped out my old TI-83 to mess with it presently.
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