Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
02-18-2011, 04:31 PM
So Official doesn't cut it anymore?

The comics were made to show backstories that the movie couldn't adress, they're considered canon lol.

Hell, the new weekly series is based off of Countdown even
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
02-18-2011, 04:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenor-Nyiad View Post
So Official doesn't cut it anymore?

The comics were made to show backstories that the movie couldn't adress, they're considered canon lol.

Hell, the new weekly series is based off of Countdown even
Was the "Official" comic in the movie? Was it handed out at the theater as you went into the movie? Or after you came out of the movie?

As it was once wisely put:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Sonnenberg, Star Trek Generation Review
You don't get credit for stuff you don't put in the movie because... now try to follow this, because it's a pretty big leap... you didn't put it in the movie. I shouldn't have to wait months and watch all your deleted scenes to say, ďOh, this finally makes sense,Ē or pore through some non-canon books to say, ďOh, so this isn't a pile of nonsensical horse**** afterall.Ē
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
02-18-2011, 04:52 PM
Complaining about it is pure nitpicking at it's finest.

It's not actually a real plot hole. "A plot hole, or plothole, is a gap or inconsistency in a storyline that goes against the flow of logic established by the story's plot, or constitutes a blatant omission of relevant information regarding the plot."

1) It's not inconsistent.
2) The gap isn't important and can be explained any number of ways even if you don't like the official way. If you go purely by the movie then he waited for 25 years. He was that hellbent on screwing with Spock. So what? That's not a plot hole. His world was destroyed and family killed. People have gone more insane for much much less. There's ZERO plot hole here no matter how you look at it unless you want to nitpick the movie pointlessly.
3) It doesn't go against the flow or logic.
4) Its not a blatant omission of relevant information because even if you're told exactly WHY he waited for 25 years (whether it be because he's just THAT angry and patient or because he was captured by Klingons) it's STILL not relevant, doesn't advance the plot, isn't important to the plot and just in the end isn't important to the plot at all. Heck, that's why they took it out. The thing felt forced and even as a real explanation added absolutely nothing to the plot.


There's ZERO plot holes. It's a great movie. It's not perfect but is the most well received Star Trek movie ever. It's made the most. Obviously the VAST MAJORITY of people don't agree that leaving out why he waiting for 25 years was important.

It doesn't fit any definition of a plot hole.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
02-18-2011, 05:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by USS Parallax
Complaining about it is pure nitpicking at it's finest.

It's not actually a real plot hole. "A plot hole, or plothole, is a gap or inconsistency in a storyline that goes against the flow of logic established by the story's plot, or constitutes a blatant omission of relevant information regarding the plot."

2) The gap isn't important and can be explained any number of ways even if you don't like the official way. If you go purely by the movie then he waited for 25 years. He was that hellbent on screwing with Spock. So what? That's not a plot hole. His world was destroyed and family killed. People have gone more insane for much much less. There's ZERO plot hole here no matter how you look at it unless you want to nitpick the movie pointlessly.
3) It doesn't go against the flow or logic.

It doesn't fit any definition of a plot hole.
It is important because Nero disappears despite having an uber-ship and having been seen by the Federation ship he destroyed. For 25 years nobody sees this ship again despite it apparently being in a part of space in or around the Federation that he's apparently been checking periodically for Spock.

And him not doing anything for 25 years goes completely against the flow of ALL logic. Logic would dictate going right to Romulus to warn them of the impending doom. Logic would have his crew overthrow him after a few years of just sitting around waiting for Spock to show up rather than either taking their revenge on Federation planets, Vulcan or otherwise, or going back to Romulus or trying to find a way back to the future or any number of other, less insane things to do.

Of course, logic would mean he would want revenge on the idiots in the Romulan government who ignored his warnings in the future rather than the one guy who actually attempted to help him out...

But if you don't want to call it a plot hole, so be it. We can simply call it bad writing.

As far as its popularity, whopdeedoo. Transformers II's box office returns made that movie's box office returns look like it was the profit from a little girl's lemonade stand, but nobody's going to argue Transformers II is a good movie or well written.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
02-18-2011, 06:11 PM
LotD are you really going to argue that it's not logical for a Romulan to want revenge? You know they are all about passion(good and bad) with a bit of paranoia right?

Romulans are the darker side of what a Vulcan could be if they didn't work for decades to keep their emotions in check. Logic has about as much place in a typical Romulans life as it does in a typical humans life. That's not to say logic has no place it's just not a near religious following like it is for Vulcans.

As to the aspect of why he waited around for 25 years. . . ignoring the bit about the Klingon prison camp that didn't make into the film. . . He needed to get Spock's ship to get the Red Matter to go about taking that revenge. 200 years advanced or not his ship would only be able to do so much before a more united fleet would have been pulled together that would have been able to take him out.

As to why he didn't go warn the Romulans I would imagine he knew exactly what would happen if he showed up at his home planet. . . The Empire would have taken his ship from him and began to break it down in order to duplicate the advanced technology. He would never have been able to take his personal revenge.

Aside from that he was a miner and was very likely looked down upon. . . he may not have even cared if Romulus had been destroyed if his family hadn't been there. Life tends to suck in the Romulan Empire unless you're in the Military or Government.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
02-18-2011, 06:14 PM
Nero was on Rura Penthe for those 25 years
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
02-18-2011, 06:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xiaza View Post
LotD are you really going to argue that it's not logical for a Romulan to want revenge? You know they are all about passion(good and bad) with a bit of paranoia right?
It's perfectly logical to want revenge. The problem is that the Romulans in question have suddenly found themselves in the past, which changes everything. The logical reaction is for them to rejoice at having the chance to stop the looming catastrophe and save everyone they thought they lost. I would expect them to forget all about Spock as they proceed to do everything they can to change history so the destruction of Romulus doesn't occur. The conflict should be that Spock appears and doesn't want history changed.

Moreover, why do they want revenge against Spock, the one person who tried to help them? Especially to the point of wanting to make Spock watch the destruction of Vulcan, and then proceed to go on a genocidal rampage against every other Federation planet. And for the kind of intense hatred required for that sort of thing to last 25 years of just sitting there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xiaza View Post
As to the aspect of why he waited around for 25 years. . . ignoring the bit about the Klingon prison camp that didn't make into the film. . . He needed to get Spock's ship to get the Red Matter to go about taking that revenge. 200 years advanced or not his ship would only be able to do so much before a more united fleet would have been pulled together that would have been able to take him out.
How do you figure that? He destroyed an entire Federation fleet in a matter of minutes and was thoroughly stomping their newest and most advanced starship when it showed up late. Considering the original Enterprise supposedly had the firepower to destroy a planet by itself, should not Nero's have more than what was required?

He's even got a drill on his ship capable of drilling all the way to a planet's core. Who needs red matter at that point?

Further, if he goes to Romulus, he can not only stop the supernova but he can give them the future tech and then he has his own armada of super-ships.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xiaza View Post
As to why he didn't go warn the Romulans I would imagine he knew exactly what would happen if he showed up at his home planet. . . The Empire would have taken his ship from him and began to break it down in order to duplicate the advanced technology. He would never have been able to take his personal revenge.

Aside from that he was a miner and was very likely looked down upon. . . he may not have even cared if Romulus had been destroyed if his family hadn't been there. Life tends to suck in the Romulan Empire unless you're in the Military or Government.
How are they going to do anything but bow down before his superior might? He's got a ship capable of destroying entire fleets. If they refuse, he can simply slaughter the leadership and take over. It worked for Shinzon, and he wasn't even a Romulan.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
02-18-2011, 06:55 PM
I'm wondering if the guy who talked about all the Star Trek plot holes has ever done any research on supplamental ST lore? Let's learn a lesson from EVE on this one: Just because someone happens to be flying a mining barge, doesn't mean they don't know how to kick your sorry little ***. (Have had this happen a few times to me. I really, REALLY hate drones.) Also, the Vulcans may have had a fleet in ST: Enterprise, but it was probably either disolved when the Federation had a strong, working navy, or were just elsewhere. Or were part of the debris field. I think I saw a ring from a D'Kyr class in in debris feild scene, but I'm not sure. Also, as long as the Kelvin had engines, it could've rammed the Nerada. Even in the debris field above Vulcan, many of the ships still had mostly intact hulls, certainly enough mass to do damage to a ship, even the Nerada, especially if Nerada's sheilds were down.

Also, the Nerada used BORG tech, which would explain how it was easily able to take out so many ships. They could have been using Borg jamming tech. Also... How do you even WORRY about three guys shooting towards a planet from low orbit? (Unless they're ODSTs, with ACTUAL GUNS) ((Pardon me, I'm just a really big fan of Halo, and I use that as my primary future tech reference. It just boggles my mind how we could've gone from Phasers to Lead in a little over a hundred years.))

Now, the plot hole I want explained: In the only DS9 episode I've ever watched, Trials and Tribbleations, the main thing the Defiant crew want to do in the end is to disaible a tricobalt bomb hidden in a tribble before it explodes. They found it in the middle of a tribble pile near a far corner of the quadrotridicali storage bin. My question is, how could have it killed anyone if it was that far away? My guess is that a small tricobalt device holds nowhere near the power of a torp, so explain why a small bomb would have more power than, say, conventional explosives. Especially if the Quantum Bombs we have in the game don't have a wide area of effect either. Nor do they do that much damage, actually.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
02-18-2011, 06:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by USS Parallax
the most well received Star Trek movie ever.
(Sorry for the double post)

So what does that make The Wrath of Kahn? Chopped Gagh?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
02-18-2011, 07:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by spartan844
(Sorry for the double post)

So what does that make The Wrath of Kahn? Chopped Gagh?
The second most well received Star Trek movie ever. With Star Trek IV the second most well received when it comes to money.


P.S. LotD really needs to check out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3y3QoFnqZc
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:26 AM.