Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 41
02-22-2011, 03:22 PM
Due to the direction the thread is going, please allow me to re-quote myself to highlight:

Quote:
Originally Posted by WishStone
*hopes everyone will keep on not commenting on their infractions, because else she will have to be mean and smack people*
Especially due to the forum's rules:
Quote:
Discussing Disciplinary Actions
Posts and/or private messages that, in any manner whether directly or indirectly, discuss disciplinary actions taken by Cryptic Studios against any user (including the poster) may be subject to an infraction.
I'd love for it to stay open, and I will try to keep it open, but please do not go and break the rules. Doing so in a thread that has a moderators close attention (because, you know, I am trying to talk to you guys) is not a good thing. At all.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 42
02-22-2011, 03:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WishStone
Due to the direction the thread is going, please allow me to re-quote myself to highlight:



Especially due to the forum's rules:


I'd love for it to stay open, and I will try to keep it open, but please do not go and break the rules. Doing so in a thread that has a moderators close attention (because, you know, I am trying to talk to you guys) is not a good thing. At all.
Its really hard to get all those worms back into the can after it's opened. In fact it's almost impossible. Good luck to you though!.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 43
02-22-2011, 03:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inquizitor View Post
What are we supposed to be doing here if talking about these issues on the forum is considered trolling?
Not trolling. Talking about CS on the forums is not okay for other reasons.
You would force us to lay out in the open what happened. And since you are a customer, we will not do that - and in turn expect you not to do it as you'd force us to either break our rules or let other customers get false information.

If you wonder about an infraction given - send a community ticket. The Community Team will review the situation. If you wonder about a GM issue, send a GM ticket and ask once more if something was missed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
How do I handle such behavior? It's offensive, it lessens the enjoyment of the game, and it seems to come from the same streak as forum trolling.
(...)
Is the GM Ticket my only recouse? Can the process be made more easy in some way, by having a "Report User" option where the appropriate GM ticket with the name pre-filled pops up?
GM Tickets are the way to go. IF there was a rule about behaviour broken, the GMs will take care of things.

See it also as something else: A buffer.
You hand off your anger in the ticket. Send it out with your ticket (but please don't flame the poor GMs, they cannot help you if you abuse them) and then move on. If people want to claim you hax0red XX on their interwebs - well, you now know that your PvP tactic worked PERFECTLY. And since they will not listen to how you defeated them, it will only take them so much longer to understand how to defend themselves against you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spartan844
The next steps should be to help reform trolls into respectable posters.
Each warning we give is an attempt at doing so.
If a mod sends out a warning it usually directs the poster to the forum's rules. Many of these rules should be straight-forward: Don't be mean, respect other posters, don't post things you'd not want to tell your little niece and so on. SOME rules are special and may not be an immediate "Oh I see" for anyone new to online forums: Discussing Disciplinary Actions; Illegal Drugs and Other Illegal Activities ; Creating Duplicate Threads... and because of that, we make sure the rules are visible for everyone to find. And if someone missed them we'll point them out once more.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 44 another tactic
02-22-2011, 03:44 PM
After perusing the thread, something I didn't see mentioned here that's worth bringing up is the forum provides you with an ignore list. If there are posters who for whatever reason consistently get your dander riled, consider putting them on your ignore list. You will cease to see posts by them, although I suspect if they started a thread you'd miss the whole thread, a potential drawback (or perhaps not).

Of course, I'm crufty enough in internet terms to remember self policing net news groups and kill files, so this may be the forum equivalent of an old man yelling at kids to stay off his lawn.

Cheers!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 45
02-22-2011, 04:04 PM
Quote:
Creating Duplicate Threads...
This is a rule that has often baffled me. Especially when paired with the Thread Necromancy rules. I've sometimes seen People be nagged about creating duplicate threads but these same people are being nagged about posting in an old thread. Where is the line on that?

This isn't specific to this forum It is just these rules tend to pop up on every forum.

EDIT: I wanted to clarify a bit. Usually this manifests itself as a person new to the forum or someone who hasn't been on for a while. They will come in and get curious about something. The post a question or an idea and immediately get told that it is a dead horse or that they should use the search function before posting. Due to the nature of the search function someone that does use it first might find an old thread and not immediately realize or even know that the information is outdated. Again they are immediately hounded for necroing or bringing up a dead horse.

Is hounding a poster about using the search function or bringing up a topic that has been discussed before considered trolling? It isn't really helpful or even relevant to the original posters thread.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 46
02-22-2011, 04:32 PM
Ok,let me be more clear on what I meant to say......communication goes both ways,quoting rules is not communicating.

It feels a lot like getting a tell from a player,and then puts you on ignore so you can't answer.

If you'll excuse me.....going to bang my head against a brick wall now,a lot less painful than dealing with CS.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 47
02-22-2011, 04:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inquizitor View Post
This is a rule that has often baffled me. Especially when paired with the Thread Necromancy rules. I've sometimes seen People be nagged about creating duplicate threads but these same people are being nagged about posting in an old thread. Where is the line on that?
If we sit back and use our noggins a bit.... this is not baffling at all. Whats baffling is that I've had to explain it twice now. You guys read into the rules too much and think that the mods have no common sense...this then causes posters to make decisions lacking in common sense. The mods are regular people like the rest of us, they are not mindless automatons that follow strict programming language "If statements" based on the exact wording of the rules.

A. Your gonna get nailed for opening new threads on topics that were
1. Closed by a mod, common guys they were closed for a reason...
2. Repeatedly opening threads about sore subjects...

B. Your gonna get nailed for bringing up necro'd topics if they are clearly out of date due to mechanics changing or they are a year old. Plain and simple... Posting in a thread titled: "RSP is overpowered" should get you an infraction.. It got nerfed, so its not overpowered anymore. There is nothing of value to add, it's an old argument that raged months ago... its over.

If you have new comments about a different facet of the power that are useful to the community or the development team then a new thread would be ideal, one with supporting thoughts that doesn't insult Cryptic inside the first three sentences.


Guide to not getting infractions:
---------------------------------------
A. Don't be a jerk to others.... surprisingly difficult for some. (Kind of hard for me atm)
B. When you create a new thread or bring up an old topic that is not quite necro'ed.... having something like... Cryptic, DStahl, CS, StormShade <insert negative comment here> is probably not a good idea... like the post above this one....
C. IMPORTANT: If you make a new thread because the old one is questionably necro'ed...
1. Reference it, make it clear that you know it exists and that you feel it's necro'ed
2. State if you feel it is still relevant or not so others will know if the situation has changed or if they should read it as well. This will let others know that you have put some thought into it and your not out to be a pain in the bottom.

That's it! Simple right?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 48
02-22-2011, 04:40 PM
Hey Wishy...perhaps we need to start posting signed....

\|||/
(o o)
,----ooO--(_)-------.
| Please |
| don't feed the |
| TROLL's ! |
'--------------Ooo- -'
|__|__|
|| ||
ooO Ooo
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 49
02-22-2011, 04:41 PM
jpb531 : EXCELLENT points, thank you.


The idea behind disallowing thread necromancy is a relatively simple one:
STO is a very fast developing MMO. We change stuff around A LOT and our Dev team is pushing patches, fixes and publishes at a very high rate.

Say you started a thread when the Del Taco shuttle came out and said: "Hey, can we please have some other shuttles, or even make our own?". At the time this happened, it would have been a REALLY hot topic (and we indeed had a few such threads) and the discussion would have been raging. It would also have the most up-to-date info, including perhaps a Dev posting: "We'll see what we can do, but right now, we don't plan this."
Now, that thread long-since died, we have new info in the game and stuff is going neatly.

Someone comes and bumps it with a comment such as "Oooh, it would be SO COOL if we could craft vulcan shuttles, too!" - in that old thread.
Someone who may not have been reading it well will think: Oh, interesting, let me read some other stuff... and get terribly outdated info. Perhaps even carry it elsewhere, to their fleet or friends; other MMO sites and so on.


Because of this, we do not allow thread necroing. If the topic is old (and OLD means older than a couple of weeks); chances are that a new thread is the better way to go. It keeps the forums readable and filled with up-to-date info as well as reduces spam.
(Sadly, many necro threads recently didn't even discuss the thread and where "me too"-type postings.)


Edith for Sharkforce:
I won't be going into any details of what may or may not have been your experience. I will only state this in general, as that is the only comment I can make without breaking the forum's rules. I've been a GM for many years before joining Cryptic. There are reasons why GMs will not discuss the rules with you.
Discussing the rules will only lead to running in circles. The GM will state one thing, the customer will try to find a loophole. And believe me, player WILL argue for an hour to find a loophole if you let them.
Quote:
GM: You are being removed from the game servers for Leetexploithax.
Player: WHAT?! I NEVER LEETEXPLOITHAXED IN MY LIFE!
GM: We have observed you for 10 minutes doing the Leetexploithax.
Player: What? That wasn't me? That was my brother, I was away from the PC to grab some Doritos!
GM: We attempted to speak to you and find out about why you Leetexploithax. You did not respond.
Player: MY BROTHER IS 3 YEARS OLD!!
GM: I am sorry, but we must remove you from the server now.
Player: Look, mate, I never did Leetexploithax. You can trust me!
GM: But we have proof of you doing it in our internal logs.
Player: You have NO SUCH THING, Leetexploithax are also not traceable and you are going to be un HUGE trouble if you do this....
And so on. Which is why GMs in the MMOs I worked in only gave you a few lines, keeping it short and to the point. No GM will infraction you without a supervisor being consulted. Indeed, in cases where a GM has to suspend you, a supervisor often must observe the matter with the GM before any action is taken.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 50
02-22-2011, 04:43 PM
I say a lot of things that make people angry. That doesn't make me a troll.
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