Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
03-01-2011, 05:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The.Grand.Nagus View Post
Whatever is stated in the shows is canon, and STO cant just disregard that. Especially because CBS is involved with this game.
actually its only Chakotay's speculation that the Voth escaped earth on their own thats canon..

have to agree with Parallax in that the evidence would hold out, if a species capable of spaceflight had evolved on earth in the time-frame given there would be evidence for it laying about, evidence the federation would be aware of..

there's also canon evidence that the preservers took non-sentiant species into space along with the sentiants, hence the american flora and fauna seen in the episode "the paradise syndrome"

its not too hard of a leap to consider a race who hid a message inside the genetic legacy of planets across the entire galaxy might step in and save a few species once the K-T Extinction event happend and it looked like life might end on Earth on another planet, where they then evolved and developed space flight..

it combines the canon aspect (genetically tied to earth) with common sense and other canon aspects of the IP as well as information already present in-game.. and if the Voth come in to the game, i'd like to think the Devs would look at going down this route for their backstory.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
03-01-2011, 05:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by USS Parallax
They never stated that they evolved on earth. They presented it as the most likely possibility. There's absolutely not canon that would make my example impossible.
Well thats great. But honestly, if they had evolved on some other planet near Earth wouldnt there be evidence of that as well that Starfleet should have discovered?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
03-01-2011, 05:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krizonar
Everyone knows Federation sensors can scan for atoms on a planet but not a skeleton of a bipedal 7 foot creature that is obviously not human.
Fossils aren't bones, they are molds of bones filled in with mineral deposits. A fossil retains the shape of the bone, but is chemically identical to the surrounding rock. Scanners wouldn't be able to differentiate a slab of rock from a slab of rock filled with fossils.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
03-01-2011, 05:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katic View Post
Fossils aren't bones, they are molds of bones filled in with mineral deposits. A fossil retains the shape of the bone, but is chemically identical to the surrounding rock. Scanners wouldn't be able to differentiate a slab of rock from a slab of rock filled with fossils.
I meant it as light-hearted, not scientifically accurate.

the Voth were able to scan from a distance of over ninety light years with significant accuracy, even down to the individual lifeform readings, so I wouldn't put it past Starfleet to scan their own planet sometime. I also wouldn't put it past them to be able to scan for fossils.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
03-01-2011, 05:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krizonar
so I wouldn't put it past Starfleet to scan their own planet sometime. I also wouldn't put it past them to be able to scan for fossils.
And you would think they would have done the same to nearby planets, meaning the suggested idea of having them come from a near-Earth planet doesnt make much more sense.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
03-01-2011, 05:29 PM
An advanced civilization would never be able to have all the evidence lost on it.

1) Advanced civilizations would likely never limit themselves to living only on a small portion of the available land. The thing so would be ridiculous. That's like humans only living in California when everything else is available.
They'd have cities around the globe.

2) Not all of the earth has been destroyed by tectonic movements and the like.. Some of the earth has been untouched for millions of years. Yes, since the dinosaurs. It's impossible that all of the cities and stuff would be destroyed because not near all of the earth's land has.

3) Advanced civilizations will most likely NOT have houses made of mud but instead of steel and other metals which WOULD leave evidence on land. They wouldn't be in perfect shape or anything but there would be some minute amounts of evidence at least. Like globs of certain elements and mineral sand very specific patters.
Ancient cities don't last long because they were made of mud, rocks and even grasses.


Now, if for some reason this WARP CAPABLE civilization didn't leave the freakin' "now under the tectonic plate" peninsula and only made their buildings and tech out of mud then maybe it's possible. But that's just stupid and completely implausible.


The idea is as ridiculous as the Land of the Lost talking dinosaurs. You might as well make that Star Trek canon since they're pretty similar looking too.



Quote:
Originally Posted by The.Grand.Nagus View Post
Well thats great. But honestly, if they had evolved on some other planet near Earth wouldnt there be evidence of that as well that Starfleet should have discovered?
Who said it was near.


Quote:
Originally Posted by The.Grand.Nagus View Post
And you would think they would have done the same to nearby planets, meaning the suggested idea of having them come from a near-Earth planet doesnt make much more sense.
I never said it was NEAR Earth. I only said some species like the Preservers took their genetic samples, altered them into intelligent beings then they could have placed them anywhere. Maybe used 'em as slaves. Maybe set them free in the Gamma Quadrant.
Maybe it's through a whole different set of circumstances. Maybe a species wanted a zoo. They took some dinosaurs. The dinosaurs escaped like Jurassic Park and evolved on their zoo planet 1 billion light years away.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
03-01-2011, 05:31 PM
Maybe the Voth came from Pluto.

Starfleet wouldn't have scanned it, because Pluto isn't even a planet.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
03-01-2011, 05:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krizonar
Maybe the Voth came from Pluto.

Starfleet wouldn't have scanned it, because Pluto isn't even a planet.
Again, who they heck said they lived someplace close to Earth?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
03-01-2011, 05:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by USS Parallax
I hate the idea that a species of intellect evolved on Earth before the humans. Ridiculous. There would be proof. The premise of that Voth episode reminded me of Land of the Lost that was on Nick. I hates it!

So, how to remedy this?
If the Voth are ever introduced (ew!) I hope that their origin is clarified to not ACTUALLY be from Earth. Instead something like this is done:

Maybe the Iconians or Preservers or whatever took genetic samples from many worlds of species that were not intelligent. This included that dinosaur species.
Using genetic alterations they created a new race based on that genetic sample of intelligent and fully sentient beings. The Voth.
Maybe the Preservers decided to go about a new method of making other species. They already claim to have done it by seeding planets in the galaxy. Why not this way too?


I just don't like the incredibly dumb idea that there was a very advanced civilization on Earth before humans. It's just impossible. You cannot possibly erase ALL the proof... If we can find bones millions of years old there'd be absolutely no reason we couldn't find a freakin' space dinosaur.




So in short my idea is to make them genetically originate on Earth but didn't in fact evolve there. They were produced by some species (possibly the Preservers).
They still might claim ties to Earth which might put them against the Federation but... really I just care about fixing their HORRIBLE origin. :p

sorry, but they came from earth. just because you don't agree doesn't mean it should be changed.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
03-01-2011, 05:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terral
If you're gonna make a random suggestion, you could at least pick a planet with a solid surface.
how do you know it's not solid somewhere under all those clouds?
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