Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
03-05-2011, 01:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darren_Kitlor
Sela's a do-er.

She wasn't afraid to take Spock (!) and Picard (!!) onboard her own ship before (the Captain of the Federation Flagship?????!!!!) What type of mastermind manipulator kidnaps high-ranking officials?

You're seriously ignoring her MO: she's no master manipulator. She's manipulative but only in a "I'll twist your arm, if you'll scratch my back sort of way"
Actually, you don't understand the nature of one of those situations if you don't see the manipulation behind her actions:

"The Romulan fleet is being blocked by the Feds from bringing supplies to the house of Duras... how can I throw their fleet commander off balance to my potential favour? I think I'll reveal I'm the daughter of his dead officer. That should screw with his head rather nicely."

And it nearly worked, but Picard is very difficult to manipulate or shake up.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
03-05-2011, 01:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forgotten-Nemesis View Post
Actually, you don't understand the nature of one of those situations if you don't see the manipulation behind her actions:

"The Romulan fleet is being blocked by the Feds from bringing supplies to the house of Duras... how can I throw their fleet commander off balance to my potential favour? I think I'll reveal I'm the daughter of his dead officer. That should screw with his head rather nicely."

And it nearly worked, but Picard is very difficult to manipulate or shake up.
yet she was an active player - not stroking her mustache behind the scenes.
Lt. Commander
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# 13
03-05-2011, 01:42 PM
I did notice on my engineer, on my second time through, that when I ignored the first orbital strike location, the second one would still have an F dialog button, but it did not work. The location also triggered my tricorder's scanning locator thingy when I pressed V. Seems to me that they should both either just work; or, if they have to be done in order, the second one's F button shouldn't exist.

Of course, the reason I did it a second time was because the first time, i went exploring, and got to the cutscene before I was supposed to. Not that there was any indication whatsoever that the Engineering accolade was timed, or where it was. That definitely ought to be improved.
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# 14
03-05-2011, 01:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darren_Kitlor
yet she was an active player - not stroking her mustache behind the scenes.
No, she did just stroke her moustache. She skulked around in cloaked ships, trying to avoid direct confrontations. When she captured Picard, Data and Spock in "Unification", she was going to imprison Picard and Data (you know, as a reactive security measure, not as an outright "go out there and do stuff like a real do-er" action.), and then she was going to manipulate Spock into getting Vulcan's defenses to drop, while Romulan troops were on their way to subjugate the planet.

I think you and I have differing opinions on what it is to be an active do-er. Yours just happens to be poorly constructed.

Sneaking around in cloaked warbirds trying to evade combat in order to supply allies in a foreign civil war is the act of a manipulator.
Showing one's face to one's opponent to psych them out into making a mistake is the act of a manipulator.
Capturing spies and broadcasting a Vulcan ambassador's holo projection to betray his people is the act of a manipulator.
Kidnapping an engineer and programming him to be a sleeper agent is the act of a manipulator.

But, showing up in the biggest, baddest ship in the fleet and fighting a force of Remans and one Fed ship is the act of a do-er.. and completely uncharacteristic of Sela.
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# 15
03-05-2011, 01:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forgotten-Nemesis View Post
Sneaking around in cloaked warbirds trying to evade combat in order to supply allies in a foreign civil war is the act of a manipulator.
Showing one's face to one's opponent to psych them out into making a mistake is the act of a manipulator.
Capturing spies and broadcasting a Vulcan ambassador's holo projection to betray his people is the act of a manipulator.
Kidnapping an engineer and programming him to be a sleeper agent is the act of a manipulator.

But, showing up in the biggest, baddest ship in the fleet and fighting a force of Remans and one Fed ship is the act of a do-er.. and completely uncharacteristic of Sela.
If you notice in all your examples, she was actually on those cloaked vessels, not issuing orders safely from a tall dark chair with a white cat. She goes out and does the things with groups, not issuing orders. She gets personally involved.


So, her cloaked scimitar that wasn't seen but observing the whole fiasco, only steeping in once Haakev failed, wasn't cloaked enough?
Lt. Commander
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# 16
03-05-2011, 01:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darren_Kitlor
If you notice in all your examples, she was actually on those cloaked vessels, not issuing orders safely from a tall dark chair with a white cat. She goes out and does the things with groups, not issuing orders. She gets personally involved.


So, her cloaked scimitar that wasn't seen but observing the whole fiasco, only steeping in once Haakev failed, wasn't cloaked enough?
Exactly, it wasn't cloaked enough. And to a Romulan, being in a cloaked Warbird is the same as issuing orders safely from a tall dark chair.

So Sela will go out and do things.. but those are always dark sneaky manipulative things, not big attention-grabbing things. Sela never once engaged in open combat in TNG. That's not her way.
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# 17
03-05-2011, 01:56 PM
I agree with Mr Kiltor. It seems very much in character especially considering how much her life has changed since TNG. Her last appearance was in 2368, it has been over 40 years and she is now the
Empress of the Romulan Empire, perhaps she is different?
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# 18
03-05-2011, 01:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darren_Kitlor
If you notice in all your examples, she was actually on those cloaked vessels, not issuing orders safely from a tall dark chair with a white cat. She goes out and does the things with groups, not issuing orders. She gets personally involved.


So, her cloaked scimitar that wasn't seen but observing the whole fiasco, only steeping in once Haakev failed, wasn't cloaked enough?
have to agree with you here, she might be manipulative like every other romulan, but shes also a do-er. when she had to, she actively got involved.
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# 19
03-05-2011, 01:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forgotten-Nemesis View Post
Exactly, it wasn't cloaked enough. And to a Romulan, being in a cloaked Warbird is the same as issuing orders safely from a tall dark chair.

So Sela will go out and do things.. but those are always dark sneaky manipulative things, not big attention-grabbing things. Sela never once engaged in open combat in TNG. That's not her way.
She watched the entire thing and only stepped in when Haakev failed.

The fact she was clever enough to watch plays into her MO of manipulative but not hands-off, orders-only.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
03-05-2011, 01:59 PM
Another point about the mission: the "weak points" of the end Gateway used the crash test dummy model.
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