Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 101
03-03-2011, 04:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by USS Parallax
What we have here are two groups of people.

The group I'm with hates things that make no sense. We don't like ignoring evidence. We don't like being ignorant to the facts. We accept the implausibility of the situation and the Voth are strikingly unrealistic because of it.

The Voth's origin would be better suited if only their genetics were from earth. Maybe they were moved by some larger force. They just did not evolve on Earth. The idea is just too incompatible with modern thinking, common sense and logic.

The evidence presented here by various members is undeniable except by those that are in denial. The VOTH evolved through either natural or artificial means... somewhere else. They may have originated from Earth but they certainly didn't obtain anything close to a civilization here.
It doesn't destroy canon and it makes sense in both lore and real world standards. It's the best fit and the most likely.
There are two groups of people, but not the two groups you think.

The first group are those who are capable of reasonable cognitive dissonance, of knowing, intellectually, that something is highly unlikely, but also of accepting the proposition that it is true as far as the fiction is concerned, simply for the sake of enjoying the fictional narrative. These are people who can enjoy both realistic fiction and unrealistic fiction equally, without getting upset or having to modify the canon in order to accept it.

The second group are incapable of accepting an obviously unrealistic fiction without justifying it, they have to invent circumstances, concoct "what if" scenarios, and then assume their own inventions true in-canon to enjoy the fictional narrative. They cannot seem to enjoy their fiction unless it conforms to some standard of realism, and what's worse, different individuals will have different standards. Some may want biology to match up, but may not mind if physics get slightly unrealistic, others want the physics and biology to be realistic, but don't mind unrealistic character arcs. Others don't mind physics, biology, or character arcs, but loathe any time-travel episodes that leave unresolved (or unresolvable) paradox.

The first group will be happy with Star Trek no matter what part is presented, no matter what episode is put forth, because they don't have to nit-pick everything to death. I have no idea how the second group can enjoy any episode of Star Trek, as there's something scientifically inaccurate in every episode.

~

The Voth, as set out in canon Trek, were from Earth, whether they completed their evolution to form there or elsewhere is a non-issue, the canon is that they originated on Earth, and left on their own. Anything which alters that, modifies it, or ignores it is non-canon if done by fans, and retconning if done by CBS or with CBS' approval.

Essentially, the Distant Origins episode provides a foundation from which we can build a larger story. Some, like myself, want to leave that foundation as is, after all, it's not like we can just un-air the episode, or erase everyone's memory of it.

Others want to chip at that foundation, break it up, and then pour new concrete and reshape it to their own desires, then build their own vision of the Voths origins, and then a completely different story from there.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 102
03-03-2011, 04:38 PM
uhhhhh 1:59
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 103
03-03-2011, 05:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasensal
You can live in blissful ignorance but some of us don't ignore the evidence screaming at us in front of our faces.
LOL! A believer! Dazzle me with the 'evidence'!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 104
03-03-2011, 06:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tavenji View Post
LOL! A believer! Dazzle me with the 'evidence'!
Read the past pages.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 105
03-04-2011, 05:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by USS Parallax
Read the past pages.
Past pages? I thought you were defending alien life on Earth, like building the pyramids and stuff.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 106
03-04-2011, 04:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terral
Because it's less dense than water? Even if there were some surface down there somewhere (It being more or less confirmed that there's not), it's going to be under so much pressure that nothing (and certainly nothing humanoid) could possibly survive there.
You're not much of a scientist are you? Pressure pushes things together, even gases...causing them to reach a state of solidity.

But...the real magic here is that you even tried to back yourself up. Have you been to Jupiter?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 107
03-05-2011, 11:58 PM
Only one solution possible,lets have playable voth. I Kinda like the big lizards at least they lool better than the saurions we have now.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 108
03-06-2011, 12:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThetaNine
You're not much of a scientist are you? Pressure pushes things together, even gases...causing them to reach a state of solidity.

But...the real magic here is that you even tried to back yourself up. Have you been to Jupiter?
I don't need to go to Jupiter to know that. It's not my fault you're being a stuckup self-assuming jerk about it. You haven't even bothered to check on something as simple as wikipedia before trying to pick a fight with me over this, which would easily show that while there are some people who suspect a (VERY TINY) rocky core at the center of Jupiter, a lot of scientists suspect it to be through and through non-solid, and if anything to have a LIQUID core. While attempting to call my science out (and completely failing to provide any of you're own) you've also shown your ignorance of things such as critical points and molecular breakdown at high pressures. Either way, there's absolutely no way anything could live there, and still be capable of interacting with humanoids. Of course this is a ridiculous thing to be debating to begin with and given your behavior so far I have no interest in continuing it either way. Believe me and research for yourself or enjoy being wrong. But don't go trying to insult people because you can't be bothered to look something up yourself.
Captain
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 647
# 109
08-22-2013, 02:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archived Post View Post
This assumes they would expand around the Globe. Mankind has, but that doesn't mean all intelligent species do. Not to mention the fact that as we've expanded we've never had to deal with, say, Tyrannosaurs? I bet had the ancient explorers who "discovered" North America found Tyrannosaurs wandering about, they wouldn't have revisited, much less built colonies. Your assumption that all civilizations behave and prioritize like Humanities has is a bit Human-centric.



Again, this assumes a world-wide civilization. Picture a civilization limiting itself to an area roughly the same size as South America. Imagine they decide to leave, all of them. Imagine how much of their civilization would be broken down and recycled for use in constructing the ships, now imagine nature having it's way for 30 million years or so with what remains.



Steel rusts, the only evidence it would leave would be Iron-rich soil. Concrete becomes dust becomes sedimentary rock. Chemical process' break down artificial materials. Heck, even non-biodegradable materials (like plastics) break down from erosion and compression and chemical decay.

Everything we have of human settlements is, at most, twenty thousand years old. Who's to say what would become of our civilization after millions of years. That much time can break down nearly anything. Now, I'd bet there would be fossils of some of their creations, but even those would be so few and far between that we might not have any evidence of it.

In Trek canon, humanity went from stone knives and bear skins to warp propulsion in twenty thousand years. if the Voth evacuated Earth as soon as they could, or even hung around twice as long, that's a window of only forty thousand years they would be leaving any evidence of a technological civilization.

There are species of Dinosaur we have only partial skeletons of, and those individual examples are separated by millions of years. It's expecting to find evidence of a single species that only hung around inside 100 thousand years of a million year window that is implausible.
Not to forget that they have bigger brain capacity than us..!!!
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,498
# 110
08-22-2013, 02:34 PM
Holy undead thread, Batman!

Mods! Kill it with fire!


Erm, word of advice, next time check the last time someone posted. Archived Post is a clear giveaway.
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