Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 141
03-10-2011, 09:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cavilier210 View Post
Well, if you can't give me a good reason, why should my mind change?
What about the fact that there are older ships at T5 in game already? Forget about the 200 year old TOS Connie, this would be a brand new ship anyway....with the look of the TOS Connie along with all the T2 skins.

D'Kyr

This Vulcan starship has been in continual use since the 22nd century, although the Vulcans have continually upgraded its technology. First used as a combat cruiser by the Vulcan High Command, later versions of the D'Kyr were used for planetary defense, scientific exploration and rescue missions.

NK

After Starfleet starships were converted to a modular design, a group from the Starfleet Corps of Engineers working at Utopia Planitia wondered if vessels from the Federation's past could be constructed in this manner. Working with Federation historian Geoffrey Pacelli, the SCE officers chose the famed NX Class for reconstruction. The NX Class Starship Replica sports the classic look of Earth's starships from the 22nd century, but has been updated with modern technology to meet current Starfleet specifications for Lieutenant-rank missions. (so...now make one for Admiral-rank missions and call it an escort)

Marauder

The Orion Syndicate has made the design of their famed Marauder Patrol Cruiser available to the Klingon Defense Force. Marauders are made for quick raids, but have the strength to last through a pitched battle.
(22nd century ship)

Excalibur

Updating the iconic profile of the Constitution class, the Excalibur is the first of a group of new, state-of-the-art cruisers intended to fill a variety of roles for Starfleet. Designed with the modular construction favored by the Starfleet Corps of Engineers, the Excalibur can tackle almost any task. Its expanded cargo capacity and advanced warp core make it an ideal solo exploration vessel, but it also performs well as a support ship during fleet actions. (make a T5 version with TOS ship skin option...if it's still too hard to believe...well turn it into a T5 Science/Escort with Cm. Sci and LtCm. Tac. with a 3/3 weapon slots)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 142
03-10-2011, 11:17 AM
The Excalibur isn't T5, nice try though.

The Vulcan ship is a science whip, hence it can't go toe to toe w/ a sovereign and pwn it like some (that's right, some, not all) people who want the connie want.

Maybe when T6 comes out, I won't care as much, but atm, I'm against a T5 connie, and your grabbing for examples from other races doesn't faze my thoughts on it. Especially since the recreated connie's are T2, and that's according to the games lore. I find it a better arguement against a T5 connie than for it.

Also, The NX is a T1 alternate, not a T5. So basically what people are asking for is already in-game.

Plus, someone did Infected w/ me and a group yesterday in a T2 connie, and it did fine, diluting the arguement presented for a T5 connie even more.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 143
03-10-2011, 12:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cavilier210 View Post
The Excalibur isn't T5, nice try though.

The Vulcan ship is a science whip, hence it can't go toe to toe w/ a sovereign and pwn it like some (that's right, some, not all) people who want the connie want.

Maybe when T6 comes out, I won't care as much, but atm, I'm against a T5 connie, and your grabbing for examples from other races doesn't faze my thoughts on it. Especially since the recreated connie's are T2, and that's according to the games lore. I find it a better arguement against a T5 connie than for it.

Also, The NX is a T1 alternate, not a T5. So basically what people are asking for is already in-game.

Plus, someone did Infected w/ me and a group yesterday in a T2 connie, and it did fine, diluting the arguement presented for a T5 connie even more.
I fail to understand your logic...you're saying you won't care if they release a tier 6 Connie but you DO care if they release a tier 5?

Who says the D'Kyr can't go toe to toe with an assault cruiser? In fact one of the easiest ways to take out a cruiser is with a science vessel. And the very point of this thread is the fact that they made a tier 1 Klingon ship into a tier 5...if that can be done without everyone complaining about it, why is it such a big deal if they made the NX into a tier 5 escort? I'm not saying I want to fly one, but the escort ship I do want to fly is the Andorian ship, which is just as old as the NX and the D'Kyr, and that's going to be tier 5 as well. I'm simply not grasping why anyone thinks it's a bad idea to retrofit...they're not old ships, they're new ships in a classic hull.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 144
03-10-2011, 02:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cavilier210 View Post
The Excalibur isn't T5, nice try though.
Where did I say there was a T5 version? I said make one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cavilier210 View Post
The Vulcan ship is a science whip, hence it can't go toe to toe w/ a sovereign and pwn it like some (that's right, some, not all) people who want the connie want.
That's dependent on player skill not stats.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cavilier210 View Post
your grabbing for examples from other races doesn't faze my thoughts on it.
Really? Cause all I did was show proof that Starfleet (in STO) uses older designs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cavilier210 View Post
Especially since the recreated connie's are T2, and that's according to the games lore. I find it a better arguement against a T5 connie than for it.
Ya? Game lore also allows for refitting, so maybe the brand new T2 Connie can be refit to T5. Even if it's not a cruiser, it can still be a Sci/Escort...or a mini cruiser but I feel it would fall short in PvP. But I see no reason why it couldn't have 26-30k hull with a 3/3 weapon slot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cavilier210 View Post
Also, The NX is a T1 alternate, not a T5. So basically what people are asking for is already in-game.
Hey...the B'rel was T1, now they have a T5 version.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cavilier210 View Post
Plus, someone did Infected w/ me and a group yesterday in a T2 connie, and it did fine, diluting the arguement presented for a T5 connie even more.
I have to say...that's pretty cool. Good...so what's the big deal with it having a T5 BO layout with a little more hull?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 145
03-10-2011, 02:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cavilier210 View Post
Maybe when T6 comes out, I won't care as much, but atm, I'm against a T5 connie, and your grabbing for examples from other races doesn't faze my thoughts on it. Especially since the recreated connie's are T2, and that's according to the games lore. I find it a better arguement against a T5 connie than for it.
Okay, so the T3 Excelsior and Nebula are an argument against the T5 versions?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cavilier210 View Post
Plus, someone did Infected w/ me and a group yesterday in a T2 connie, and it did fine, diluting the arguement presented for a T5 connie even more.
"Fine" is a matter of opinion in that regard. I tested the T2 Connie at vice admiral against the Breen, and yeah, I could hold her together and the Breen died after a while. But it took a lot longer, it was less fun, and I never would do it to anybody to team up for admiral-level content with her. I would consider that unfair to the rest of the team.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 146
03-10-2011, 04:17 PM
I'm more inclined to accept T5 B'Rel and Excelsiors because as long lasting, durable designs used frequently and in great numbers, it is very logical and resource saving then a new ship.

Once you improve it, you can then refit the rest of them.

The TOS Connie is a ship not in service since around 2270, so having a Starfleet Engineer group finding a way to put brand new gear they were never designed for inside an old spaceframe AND to make it look exactly the same on the outside makes no sense. Especially since its a war.

For them to refit Excelsiors (and B'Rel) makes more sense because

1) Less work needs to be done (they have already been partially modernized anyway)
2) Instead of having to build entirely new ships, they can now just refit existing ships.


I can accept these old ships at Tier 0 and 1 because in a war, rushing those ships into service makes sense as it wouldn't be as good as more modern ships but would be cheaper (but designing em from the ground up to be much higher tech would be quite wasteful).


As for the Vulcan ship, I already find it ridiculous, and I don't think compounding one mistake with another is a good idea.

I can however kinda see it, as it is possible the Vulcans over time simply refitted older designs to serve as a local defense fleet, when Starfleet wasn't around and to deal with local problems, and when war broke out, they loaned several to to Starfleet. The advanced nature could be attributed to Vulcans refitting them over time. And possibly making them so advanced during the Dominion War. (I'm grasping for some kind of logical reason)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 147
03-10-2011, 04:53 PM
I'll say this: I'd be happy with a T5 Excalibur and maybe give it holo-emitter devices for the T1 and T2 Connie looks.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 148
03-11-2011, 02:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leviathan99
I'll say this: I'd be happy with a T5 Excalibur and maybe give it holo-emitter devices for the T1 and T2 Connie looks.
Awww, what about the poor Vesper? Just let the T2 cruiser be retrofitted with all 3 options, so everybody can make his favourite kitbash. It won't matter anyway if Cryptic realizes the plans to make refits craftable.
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