Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
03-13-2011, 12:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sh1ngara
1000 atari credits are meant tobe 7.88 gbp but charged 9.88 what gives ?
It's called VAT (and it' stated on the STO site that prices don't include the VAT because the VAT varies depending on counrtry). Sucks, but that honestly is beyond Cryptic's control.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
03-13-2011, 02:32 PM
Quote:
I would love to see how this stands under independent legal scrutiny. There is something deeply immoral, if not illegal; in obtaining the customer's approval for one price then charging another.
in short? it wouldn't.

fact is by law you must disclose the full price the customer is expected to pay *including taxes* before the item is paid for, via cash or credit card. it is illegal to, say, charge $10 for something I bought at a store and I approve that payment, only to find I was charged $5 in taxes, for a total of $15 charged to my card. in simple terms this means the tax must be added to the price before approval for the payment is given. hence what cryptic is doing is not technically legal. it is not enough to say 'vat taxes may be included' as they must state what the amount you are expected to pay - taxes included, before you approve the purchase. do NOT argue with me on this cryptic, that is the law and you can look it up for yourself.

this is why, here in nova scotia, if I buy something that costs $100, that is punched into the register, as is the tax (7%) which updates the final price to something like $107. THAT is the price that I would authorize the credit card company to remove from my account. they could add or remove nothing to that number without my consent.

not that cryptic actually cares. this isn't the first thing they've done that isn't legal.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
03-13-2011, 04:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhodes85 View Post
not that cryptic actually cares. this isn't the first thing they've done that isn't legal.
Do you have examples of other alleged illegal activity?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
03-13-2011, 05:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhodes85 View Post
not that cryptic actually cares. this isn't the first thing they've done that isn't legal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeathenStorm View Post
Do you have examples of other alleged illegal activity?
I am wondering the same thing.

Besides with the legal arm behind Atari if what they were doing were illegal it would not be happening.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
03-13-2011, 06:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhodes85 View Post
in short? it wouldn't.

fact is by law you must disclose the full price the customer is expected to pay *including taxes* before the item is paid for, via cash or credit card. it is illegal to, say, charge $10 for something I bought at a store and I approve that payment, only to find I was charged $5 in taxes, for a total of $15 charged to my card. in simple terms this means the tax must be added to the price before approval for the payment is given. hence what cryptic is doing is not technically legal. it is not enough to say 'vat taxes may be included' as they must state what the amount you are expected to pay - taxes included, before you approve the purchase. do NOT argue with me on this cryptic, that is the law and you can look it up for yourself.

this is why, here in nova scotia, if I buy something that costs $100, that is punched into the register, as is the tax (7%) which updates the final price to something like $107. THAT is the price that I would authorize the credit card company to remove from my account. they could add or remove nothing to that number without my consent.

not that cryptic actually cares. this isn't the first thing they've done that isn't legal.
Actually, you don't know the law, as I would think Atari knows the legal situations in the EU far better. :p (Especially considering their lawyers are probably much higher paid hehe)

It is enough to say VAT taxes are not included in the price and vary depending blah blah blah. It is the CONSUMERS job to know that there is a VAT. Every EU/UK citizen knows there is a VAT tax. If you don't then you live under a rock :p I've done online trading in this manner for many years and never once had a customer come after me screaming they where charged unfairly.

Regardless of that it can sometimes be EXTREMELY difficult for an american company to know exactly WHAT the vat charges are going to be beforehand. While a lot of online processors do input this (or attempt to cover it with adding a flat say 15% tax ontop of the purchase price), even paypal doesn't always list the VAT charge till it's gone through. And I think, them being a former bank, would have a better grasp on this concept hehe.

In the end, why people get shocked when they are charged VAT when it clearly states it's not included in the purchase price is beyond me.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
03-13-2011, 06:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Askray View Post
even paypal doesn't always list the VAT charge till it's gone through.
Every time I've tested the buying process through Paypal, it has always shown the total cost, including a separate line for tax.

In your trading, did you ever charge a customer extra AFTER they agreed to pay a stated amount?

If so, did you issue a receipt that only showed the original amount, with no mention of applicable taxes?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
04-02-2011, 04:58 PM
You can sue atari. Thats the law. If you agreed to pay 10$ then you pay 10$. Law is that price you confirm is final, and includes all applicable taxes.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
04-02-2011, 06:44 PM
Pay by Paypal if you want to know how much you'll be paying. Or be surprised on your bill. The tax could do with being automatically shown for credit cards to save any cries of fraud. Because it's not fraud but it isn't as clear as it could be. It does say tax isn't included but people like mosey matters set out with no room for doubt.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
04-04-2011, 06:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Askray View Post
Actually, you don't know the law, as I would think Atari knows the legal situations in the EU far better. :p (Especially considering their lawyers are probably much higher paid hehe)

It is enough to say VAT taxes are not included in the price and vary depending blah blah blah. It is the CONSUMERS job to know that there is a VAT. Every EU/UK citizen knows there is a VAT tax. If you don't then you live under a rock :p I've done online trading in this manner for many years and never once had a customer come after me screaming they where charged unfairly.

Regardless of that it can sometimes be EXTREMELY difficult for an american company to know exactly WHAT the vat charges are going to be beforehand. While a lot of online processors do input this (or attempt to cover it with adding a flat say 15% tax ontop of the purchase price), even paypal doesn't always list the VAT charge till it's gone through. And I think, them being a former bank, would have a better grasp on this concept hehe.

In the end, why people get shocked when they are charged VAT when it clearly states it's not included in the purchase price is beyond me.
Atari is not American, it is French and they should know better. Infogrames bought out Atari/Hasbro years ago. Atari has some corporate offices in NYC, but it is really a holding corporation based out of Lyon, France.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
04-04-2011, 10:17 AM
Contact billing support. There is a live chat option even: http://www.atari.com/support/startrekonline#help

If they cannot resolve the issue to your satisfaction and you think there is something legally wrong (based on your own understanding or on the advice here), a lawyer might be able to tell you if something is wrong and initiate the necessary steps.
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